Thomas Herbert

75

iain Frazier on 1st November 2025

Family connections for Thomas (Herbert) are: HERBERT Thomas (Herbert) was born on 8 1 1770 & became a postillion (rider of horse pulling a carriage) for the Duke of Chandos in London. He was tried for shopbreaking & stealing candlesticks from John (Macgauran) and Dennis (Doland) ironmongers in Oxford St (on 17 9 1790 immediately? after? his employers death) at Old Bailey on 12 1 1791, sentenced to death commuted to Life, held probably at London or Middlesex Gaol Delivery & arrived in NSW as a convict on 14 2 1792 afyer a voyage of 8.5months on PITT; much fever & attempts to escape from the ship resulted in deaths of convicts-of the 450convicts on board only 29 were alive at muster in May 1792 (or perhaps only this many could be mustered); he was Protestant. He was employed as overseer for John (MacArthur) at Camden in 1806. He provided assistance at Stock Farm Seven Hills to John (Macarthur)s wife Elizabeth during her husbands absence from 1801 to 1805 & was granted land in 1811 as reward by insistence of Elizabeth & perhaps was granted status of 'Free by Servitude' by the same action. He was recorded as Free by Servitude in 1811. He had a relationship with Catherine (Campbell her second (2of3) relationship) & maybe later married her, both being emancipists, while living at Liverpool on 22 5 1815 at St Johns CofE Parramatta-the same day as baptism of 2children-marriage not shown in Smees records. He was recorded in 1825 with Absolute Pardon as landholder at Liverpool with his family. He was recorded in 1828 as overseer for John (Macarthur) at Camden with his family. He was still a servant to the (Macarthur)s when he died on 17 10 1846 age74/6 at Narellan Southern Tablelands & was buried at St Johns Anglican Camden. [Some details taken from this Website] Cathe/arine/Mary (Campbell) was born about 1785/95. She was tried, as Mary (Campbell), w/1other for theft from her employer at Lancaster Liverpool Quarter Sessions Lancashire on 15 1 1805, sentenced to 7years & arrived in NSW as a convict on 18 6 1807 after a voyage of 5.5months on SYDNEY COVE; she was Protestant. She had a first (1of3) relationship with Thomas (Kelly) & produced a child. She was an emancipist living at Liverpool in 1815. She was recorded in 1825 as Free by Servitude at Liverpool with her family.>>> [Some details taken from this Website] .. Thomas (Herbert) & Catherine (Campbell) produced 7children: 1.Sarah (Herbert) was born on 21 10 1811 & baptised on 21 5 1815 (the day of her parents wedding) age3 w/Jane at St Johns CofE Parramatta. She was recorded in 1825 with her parents at Liverpool. She was recorded in 1828 at Upper Minto with her mother. She married Thomas (Scott) on 3 5 1830 with permission of her parents at St Pauls CofE Cobbity. She died in 1902 age about90. ..Thomas (Scott) was born on 15 12 1808 & baptised on 4 8 1811 age2 w/Joseph at St Johns CofE Parramatta. He died in 1839 age about30. ..Details of Thomas (Scott)s family are given in entry for Joseph (Scott COROMANDEL 1802) on this Website. .. 2.Jane (Herbert) was born on 13 1 1814 & baptised on 21 5 1815 (the day of her parents wedding) age16m w/Sarah at St Johns CofE Parramatta. She died on 26 6 1815 age17m & was buried at St Johns CofE Parramatta. 3.Elizabeth (Herbert) was born on 3 6 1816 & baptised on 10 9 1820 age4 w/Catherine at St Johns CofE Sydney. She was recorded in 1825 with her parents at Liverpool. She was recorded in 1828 at Upper Minto with her mother. 4.Catherine (Herbert) was born on 6 9 1819 & baptised on 10 9 1820 age1+ w/Elizabeth at St Johns CofE Parramatta. She was recorded in 1825 with her parents at Liverpool. She was recorded in 1828 at Upper Minto with her mother. .. >>>Cathe/arine/Mary (Campbell) had a third relationship with William/John (Scott) & produced 2children (whose names are given as (Herbert) in 1828 census). She was recorded in 1828 as landholder 100acres at Upper Minto with her children. She died on 21 2 1871 at Upper Picton Southern Tablelands age76/86 mother of 7children. William (Scut/t/Scott) was born about 1799 & became a servant. He was tried for theft at Sussex Assizes, sentenced to 7years & arrived in NSW as a convict on 30 9 1817 after a voyage of 6months on LORD ELDON. He was recorded as a settler in 1827. He was recorded in 1828 as a servant at Minto. He died in 1866 age about87 at Albury. [Some details taken from this Website] REFERENCE Craig James Smee 'Births and Baptisms Marriages and Defacto Relationships Deaths and Burials New South Wales 1788-1830' ..a complete listing from church & other records in the early colony.

54

Phil Hands on 21st April 2018

Old Bailey Trial Transcription. Reference Number t17910112-30 84. THOMAS HERBERT was indicted for feloniously and burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Macgauran and Dennis Doland , between the hours of twelve and two, at night, on the 17th of September , and feloniously stealing therein one brass candlestick, value 2 s. and five other candlesticks made of Prince's-metal, value 10 s. their property. DENNIS DOLAND sworn. I live in Oxford-street ; I am an ironmonger there; my partner's name is John Macgauran ; we live in the same house: on the 18th of December, about one in the morning, I was disturbed out of my sleep by knocking and ringing; I saw a parcel of people in the street from the window, and understood my shop was broke open. In what manner? - I found a pane of glass broke, one shutter down, two hanging, and five or six candlesticks gone off the window. How was it broke, by wrenching the shutters down of the shop? - One quite down, two more hanging. It must require a degree of force to do this? - It must be force. Have you a locking-bar that goes across? - Yes, there is a bar that goes across, and these shutters had no bearing upon that bar, so they slipt it down, and broke the glass, and stripped the shelf as far on each side as they could reach. Was there more than one pane broke? - No more than one. What was taken out? - About seven pair of candlesticks; I cannot exactly say; there may be five or six pair of brass candlesticks, and a Prince's-metal candlestick, which is brass and copper with the metal; I inquired if they had taken any body; they said Mr. Hill, the constable, had taken one. Had you seen the shutters that night? - I did not go outside, but I had seen that it was safe. Was a pane of glass broke? - No; the pane of glass was whole. What hour was it you saw it last? - About ten o'clock. The window was not broke at ten o'clock, and the shutters to all appearance were up clear and right? - Yes. Then the shutters could not fall by accident? - They could not. You did not observe whether there was any mark of a crow, or any thing that had wrenched it? - I did not observe. Mr. Knowlys, Prisoner's Counsel. I understand your partner's name is Macgauran, hath no one got any share in the business besides? - None. You live in the house? - There are two houses, one lease; the one I live in, and he lives in the other. Are your houses so circumstanced, that only one house has an opening into the shop? - Both have it; there is a party-wall between both houses, but there is an entrance from each house into the shop. Do you pay your rent separately? - No, we do not. Where was Mr. Macgauran at that time? - He sometimes sleeps at a lodging he has in the country; he has not good health. Who arranged the goods in the window that day? - I do not know that any were put in that day; but they are cleaned once a week, and when there is a pair sold, they are replaced. Will you take upon yourself to say, that there were candlesticks in the reach of this pane of glass? - There certainly were. Court. Mr. Macgauran's servants sleep in that part of the house? - Yes, they do. He sometimes sleeps in the country, and sometimes in town there? - Yes, he does. JOHN RUSSELL sworn. I am porter to Messrs. Doland and Macgauran; I shut up the shutters, and left them all safe, about nine o'clock in the evening. The windows were all safe, and the glass was not broke? - No, none. How were they next day? - The shutters were all safe put up again when I came; I do not sleep in the house; my master put them up. JOHN HILL sworn. I live just by Mr. Doland, in the same street: as I was at the watch-house, and being fine, I walked down the street, a little below Mr. Doland's house, to my own house, and came back again: when I walked down first, every thing was safe; I returned again in about a quarter of an hour; the first time I came out about half past twelve; in returning back, just before I came to Mr. Doland's shop, I met a man; I had a suspicion of him, that he was a thief, and thought he had got something more than he should; I looked him hard in the face, and let him pass; when I came up to Mr. Doland's house, there was a man stood at the shutters, facing the window; I saw one of the shutters taken out, and set on the ground; the bar goes about the bottom of the shutters, and by one shutter being taken out, two others were bent back; I was just going to say to myself, what was the matter, when I saw the man put his hand into the window, and pull out the candlestick; the man is the prisoner at the bar; as he pulled it out, I took hold of his collar, and he dropped the candlestick; and I took him into custody, and called the watch; when the watchman came, I picked up the candlestick, and knocked at the door. Did you observe whether the shutters were forced by a crow or chissel? - I did not examine the shutters after I had got him. Mr. Knowlys. Did you search this lad? - Yes, at the watch-house. You found no crow, or any thing of that sort? - No. You said you saw the shutter taken out, and put on the ground; you did not see this man do it? - I did not. There was some person gone by that excited your suspicion? - There was. You did not see the window broke? - I did not. This man was taking the opportunity of that circumstance, of the window being down, and the glass being broke? - He was, certainly. You did not find any instrument about him that would enable him to do this? - I did not. (The candlestick produced, and deposed to.) Court to Prosecutor. Was that candlestick in your shop the preceding day? - I cannot say that. (The prisoner called William Parker , who lived in Brewer-street, Golden-square, with whom the prisoner and his father had lodged a year and a half, who gave both a very good character: the prisoner is a postillion, and lived with the Duke of Chandos till his death: he never knew him to be out a night in his life.) JOHN ALLEN sworn. I live in James-street, Grosvenor-square; I am a cordwainer; I have known the prisoner three or four years; he always bore a very good character for honesty; he got his living working among the horses. THOMAS GOLDING sworn. I live in James-street, Grosvenor-square, No. 28; I have known the prisoner four years; he always bore a very good character; I never heard any fault since the time I knew him. GUILTY , Death . (Aged 18.) Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.

54

Phil Hands on 21st April 2018

Thomas was a Postilion (rider of carriage horse) and lived in the household of the Duke of Chandos in London until the duke's death in 1789. On 12th January 1791 he was tried and convicted at the Old Bailey for breaking and entering a shop / dwelling-house in Oxford Street and stealing 6 candlesticks, he was sentenced to death, this was later commuted to transportation for life. Left England on 17th July 1791. Ship:- the 'Pitt' sailed with 352 male and 58 female convicts on board of which 20 males and 9 females died during the voyage, 5 males were also reported to have escaped. Arrived on 14th February 1792. From 1806 he worked for the Macarthur's on their estate at Camden becomming the overseer there. John Macarthur was absent from New South Wales from 1801 1805. Macarthur was always an argumentative character and had a disagreement with Colonel Paterson his commanding officer, fought a duel, and Paterson was wounded. Governor King had Macarthur arrested and sent for trial in England in 1801. In John's absence the family's pastoral interests were managed by his wife, Elizabeth, from her home at Elizabeth Farm at Parramatta. She called Stock Farm her Seven Hills Farm and was ably assisted by her farm manager, or overseer, initially with Richard Fitzgerald, followed by William Joyce, John Hindle and Thomas Herbert, Thomas was valued so much that Elizabeth Macarthur successfully requested the Governor grant land to him in 1811. Thomas married convict Catherine (Mary) Campbell ('Sydney Cove' 1807) at Parramatta on 22nd May 1815 they had 7 children between 1809 and 1826. Thomas died on 17th October 1846 at Narellan, Southern Tablelands, NSW age 74 and was buried in St.Johns Anglican Church at Camden. Catherine died on 21st February 1871 at Upper Picton, Southern Tablelands, NSW age 86.

105

Denis Pember on 7th December 2015

1828 Census of New South Wales: [Ref H1515] Herbert, Thomas 57, absolute pardon, Wm Pitt, 1792 life, Protestant, overseer to John Macarthur, Camden. And also... [Ref H1505] Herbert, Catherine 37, free by servitude, Sydney Cove, 1807, 7 years. Protestant, landholder, Upper Minto, 100 acres, 60 acres cleared and cultivated, 1 horse, 13 horned cattle. [Ref H1506] Herbert, Thomas 19 born in the colony. [Ref H1507] Herbert, Sarah 17 born in the colony. [Ref H1508] Herbert, Elizabeth 12 born in the colony. [Ref H1509] Herbert, Catherine 9 born in the colony. [Ref H1510] Herbert. Emaline, 11 born in the colony [Ref H1511] Herbert, William 2 born in the colony.

105

Denis Pember on 7th December 2015

Catherine and Thomas had 7 children between 1809 and 1826. 1825 Muster of New South Wales:- Herbert, Thomas, absolute pardon, Pitt, landholder, Liverpool. Herbert, Mrs, free by servitude, Sidney Cove, wife of T. Herbert. Herbert, Thomas, 13 born in the colony, child of above. Herbert, Sarah 11 born in the colony, child of above. Herbert, Elizabeth 6 born in the colony, child of above. Herbert, Catherine 3 born in the colony, child of above.

105

Denis Pember on 7th December 2015

Thomas was a postilion and lived in the household of the Duke of Chandos in London until the duke's death in 1789. At the Old Bailey (Transcript t17900112-30) in 1790 he was sentenced to death for stealing candlesticks valued at 12/6d from an ironmonger's shop in Oxford Street. The sentence was commuted to transportation for life. He was transported aboard the ship Pitt arriving 14 Feb 1792 and became an overseer on the Macarthur estate at Camden.

1

Pat maclaren-smith on 12th November 2011

Worked with horses (postillion) for the Duke of Chandos. 1806 was employed as resident overseer by John MacArthur at Camden. 1815 married Catharine Campbell at St Johns Church Parramatta by Rev.Samuel Marsden...two daughters were christened on the same day. Thomas is buried in St.Johns Anglican Church at Camden,no headstone marks his grave but a note in the Burial register says.. Servant to Messrs.MacArthur for very many years.