John Vale

74

iain Frazier on 22nd December 2024

Family connections for John (Vale) are: VALE John (Vale) was born about 1790. He was tried w/1other for theft of a gelding in Smithfield London, on 5 12 1817, of Joseph (Pennington) of St Sepulchres at Old Bailey in January 1818, sentenced to death reprieved to Life, held at London Gaol Delivery & arrived in Van Diemens Land (Tasmania) as a convict on 17 12 1818 after a voyage of 5months on LORD MELVILLE. He apparantly became servant to George (Evans) perhaps at Glenorchy. He had a relationship with Ann (Burrows her second relationship) in 1822. He may been instrumental in relieving his partner Ann (Burrows/Lush) of her property. [These details taken from this Website] Ann (Cole/Burrows) was born on 8 5 1800 on Norfolk Island & baptised on 10 4 1803 age2 w/Richard & John & hsi.Maria (Tucker) on Norfolk Island. She was recorded as off stores in February 1805. She went to Van Diemens Land (Tasmania) with her parents on 3 9 1808 as part of the first evacuation on CITY OF EDINBURGH, arriving on 3 10 1808; to 40acres at New Town/Glenorchy. She married firstly at age12 Silvester (Lush his second marriage) emancipist on 8/28 12 1812 at St Davids CofE Hobart & produced 5children. She was recorded as off stores with 2children at Hobart Town on 2 10 1818. She received mistreatment from her husband, as a result of which she received the family farm from him-which was later confiscated to pay mortgage debts & perhaps sold to John (Veale). She left her husband with daughter Sarah in 1822. After 1824 she was successful in petitioning to have her husband released fron incarceration at Macquarie Harbour to be assigned to her in 1829; but not successful in petiitions for return of her property. She died >1840 age>40 mother of perhaps 5children. Details of Ann (Burrows)s family are given in entry for Richard Cornelius (Burrows NEPTUNE? 1790) on this Website. Reference: Craig James Smee 'Births and Baptisms Marriages and Defacto Relationships Deaths and Burials New South Wales 1788-1830' ..a complete listing from church & other records in the early colony.

341

Maureen Withey on 10th February 2023

Old Bailey Proceedings Online (www.oldbaileyonline.org, version 8.0, 10 February 2023), January 1818, trial of CHARLES WOOD JOHN VALE (t18180114-13). CHARLES WOOD, JOHN VALE, Theft > animal theft, 14th January 1818. 179. CHARLES WOOD and JOHN VALE were indicted for stealing, on the 5th of December , at St. Sepulchre's, one gelding, price 35l. , the property of Joseph Pennington . THOMAS HOOK. I am servant to Mr. Joseph Pennington , who lives at Godstone . On the night of the 4th of December I put the horses up in the yard, and fastened the gate at eight o'clock, the bay gelding was safe then. I returned next morning, about a quarter before six o'clock, and the gelding was gone-it came home afterwards. I am certain it was my master's. Cross-examined by MR. ANDREWS. Godstone is about twenty-two or twenty-three miles from Smithfield. There were four horses in the yard at night, and I only found three there the next morning. My master has had the gelding ten years; I have lived six years and a half with him, and have had the care of the gelding during that time, and knew it again. WILLIAM COOPER. I am servant to Mr. Pennington. On the 5th of December, about five o'clock in the morning, I went to my master's premises, the yard gate stood open, there are two yard gates-the horses were in the corn-yard; the gelding was gone. Cross-examined by MR. ANDREWS. I have seen the horse since; it has a white foot, and a bald face; I should know it among a thousand. JOHN KIRKBY MOORE. I manage Mr. Pennington's farm for him, he is the only occupier of it. Hook informed me that the gelding was gone, and I immediately came to London; I have known the horse about eighteen months; I saw it again in Giltspur-street, in the possession of John Ayres. After some conversation with him about it, the prisoner, Wood, came up, I asked him if he was the owner of the horse, he said, Yes. I asked the price, he said 24l. I told him it was too much, and asked him its age; he said it was six years old. I told him it was more; he said it was not more than seven. He then offered it to me for 23l. I said it was too much. Q.Did he say any thing more about the horse-A. He said he knew it very well, and would put it into a cart to shew me how it would go. He said it was a Suffolk bred horse. I went for a constable, and on my return I met Ayres, leading the horse, in Smithfield, and Wood near him. I asked Wood if he would take 20l. for it - He said 22l. was the lowest-the constable came and took him, and I gave the landlord charge of the horse. After the examination before the magistrate I took the horse back into the country, the two witnesses saw it-it was the same horse. When I got into the country, I and Jones went and apprehended the prisoner, Vale, at Heaver, in Kent, on a Sunday, where he lived. Cross-examined. I never saw the prisoner, Wood, until I saw him in Smithfield. I went up to him as if I meant to buy the horse-it stood alone, in the care of Ayres. Wood asked 24l. for it. I was gone about twenty-five minutes for the constable, I returned, and talked with him again about the horse. Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Did you give him any reason, at first, to suppose you suspected him - A. None at all. JOHN AYRES . I assist the hostler at the Green Dragon, in Smithfield. On the 5th of December, between six and seven o'clock in the morning, I saw the horse in the stable, I did not see the man bring it in, but I saw the prisoners in conversation about it. Wood asked me to go and have something to drink with him, and took me to the Denmark's Head, in the Old Bailey-Vale was there. Wood asked me what time the horse-market began; I told him about one or two o'clock, and not before. He said he had bought the horse of Vale, and wished to sell it again-Vale was present. Wood said he gave Vale 18l.10s. for it; he then put his hand into his pocket, and said, I have got to give you two shillings to make up the 18l. 10s., and he gave him two shillings-Vale took it. I asked Vale who he bought the horse of; he said he bought it coming along the road that morning. I asked him if he knew the man of whom he bought it, he said no, only that he told him his name was James Buckle . I told him I thought it was a stolen horse, and if it was, I thought he had brought it to a very likely market to have it owned. Wood asked me to lead the horse into the market for him, and said he would satisfy me for my trouble - I said I would; he then told me to get him ready, and tie his tail up to take him into the market. We came out of the public-house, Vale asked the way to Pimlico, I told him, and they both went down the Old Bailey. I did not see Wood again until he came to have the horse in the market, at the time Mr. Moore was asking me the price of it - I heard him ask the price. He has spoken correctly. Cross-examined by MR. ARABIN. I am not much acquainted with horse selling. I was not in the way when the horse came. Wood took me out of the stable to the Old Bailey, he seemed anxious to sell the horse; he said he bought it of Vale, Vale set close to me and heard him. Cross-examined by MR. ANDREWS. I do not know who brought the horse, I first saw Wood at a little after seven o'clock; we found Vale in the Old Bailey; I had a bad opinion of the business, and said, before them both, that I thought if it was prigged, he had brought it to a wrong place. After this Wood still went to Smithfield with me - He never attempted to go away; when Moore came I called him to me, and he was taken. Wood said he bought it of Vale before and after I had said I thought it was stolen, and still desired me to take it to Smithfield. STEPHEN VINCE . I am hostler at the Green Dragon, in Giltspur-street. On the morning of the 5th of December, the prisoner, Vale, alone, brought the gelding; I wasopening the gates to let a waggon in, about a quarter to six o'clock - He called for the hostler, and I answered; he said he wanted to put the horse in the stable to bait; I shewed him the way - He led it in, and tied it up himself. Wood came about seven o'clock, looked at the horse, and had him ran up and down the yard; he asked Vale if he,(Vale,) was not the man who bought the horse that morning, he said he was. I asked Vale if the horse was for sale, he said, Yes. I asked him if he knew who he bought it of? he said the man told him his name, but he did not know where he lived - He did not tell me his name; he said he bought it at Kennington turnpike, coming to town. After that he went into the yard, and returned in about half an hour, Wood had not been then; he ordered his horse a quartern of corn, which I gave him. Wood came down as if he was a stranger, and asked the questions which I related before; he said, "you are the man who bought the horse, if you had not bought it I should." I said, "if you will give him something for his bargain, he will let you have it." They appeared to be strangers to each other. They talked together; the horse was ran up and down the yard, and afterwards taken into the stable again. I did not hear them make any agreement. Cross-examined by MR. ARABIN. Q. You told all this before the magistrate-A. Yes; I will not say I told it word for word. No person has been talking to me about it. Wood is not the man who brought the horse. Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. You said Vale was the man-A. I will not swear to him. COURT. Q. You have sworn before the magistrate that the person who was dressed as Vale was before the magistrate, was the man, what do you believe now of Vale-A. To the best of my belief he is the man; I have not the least doubt of his being the man. JURY. Q. How did the horse appear when it came into the stable - A.It appeared as if it had come off the road, being very thin and dirty. It had a broken halter on. JAMES JONES. I am constable of Edenbridge, Kent. I have known the prisoners from their childhood; they lived at Eaver, which is twenty-seven miles from town, and were very well acquainted. Edenbridge is twentysix miles from town. Godstone is between Eaver and London, but not the nearest way. I was applied to on Sunday, the 17th of December, by Moore, and took Vale into custody. I told him I was not certain what the charge was against him. As we were coming to town, he said he did not steal the horse; I had said something about a horse, but I do not remember what. He said he did not take the horse, nor yet sell it. Cross-examined. I am a constable in the neighbourhood. I had not heard of the horse having been stolen. Cross-examined by MR. ANDREWS. Wood lived at Edenbridge, and had a very good character; he is a collar maker. MR. MOORE re-examined. The value of the gelding is 35l. WOOD'S Defence. I did not steal it. VALE'S Defence. I know nothing of it. WOOD - GUILTY. - DEATH . Aged 28. VALE - GUILTY. - DEATH . Aged 28. Recommended to Mercy . London Jury, before Mr. Recorder.