William Gregory Bigg

135

C H on 31st March 2024

Old Bailey Online WILLIAM GREGORY BIGG. JOSEPH RALPH PAY-ODY. Deception; forgery. 29th November 1841 Text type Trial account Defendants WILLIAM GREGORY BIGG, JOSEPH RALPH PAY-ODY Offences Deception > Forgery Session Date 29th November 1841 Reference Number t18411129-156 Verdicts Guilty, Guilty Punishments Transportation, Transportation 156. WILLIAM GREGORY BIGG and JOSEPH RALPH PAYBODY were indicted for forging and uttering, on the 9th of October, an order for the payment of 200l., with intent to defraud Robert Snow and others.—Other COUNTS, varying the manner of stating the charge. MESSRS. BODKIN and CHAMBERS the conducted the Prosecution. CHARLES WARD . I am a clerk in the banking-house of Robert Snow and others in the Strand, near St. Clement's church—there are four partners. On the 9th of October, a little before five o'clock, the prisoner Bigg presented a cheque for payment for 200l., which I produce—I asked what he would have for it—he said, "Notes," and I think he said three 50l., two 20l., and one 10l.,—while the clerk was getting the notes, I took the opportunity of going into Sir John Dean Paul's room—he is one of the partners—I took the cheque with me, came back, and desired the prisoner to go into Sir John's room—after he had been there a few minutes, Sir John called out, "Stop him," and I saw the prisoner running towards the door, and very near the door he was stopped by a person—he was taken back into Sir John's room, and a constable was tent for—(cheque read, dated 9th October, 1841, for 200l. Signed, Robert Wynne Williams)—here is another cheque for 100l., dated 7th. August, 1841—I paid this on the 10th of August—three days after it bears date—it purports to be signed by Mr. Williams—I have the entry of the notes I paid for it, which was three of 2l., Nos. 94484, 91525, and 92935, all dated 9th of March—four of 10l., Nos. 63303, 63304, 63305, and 63306, dated 10th of June—here is a cheque purporting to be signed by Mr. Williams, dated 16th of September, for 100l., which I paid on the 17th of September, with ten notes of 10l., Nos. 45216, 45217, 45218, 45219, 45220, 45221, 45222, 45223, 45224, and 45225, dated 10th of July—I have no recollection of the person to whom I paid them, whether it was either of the prisoners or not—(cheques read). SIR JOHN DEAN PAUL, BART . I am one of the firm of Snow and Co. Ward made a statement to me about the 200l. cheque on the 9th of October—he brought Bigg in to me—I had desired him if such a transaction took place, to do so, having received a communication—he was brought into my room—I said, "You are my prisoner for forgery"—he replied he was perfectly innocent of any thing of the kind, and wondered how I dare accuse him —I said I should send for Mr. Williams, and he would soon prove it was a forgery—he replied, "You need not do that, for Mr. Williams is out of town"—I said, "If he is out of town, how came he to sign this cheque here to-day?" and said, "Why, you convict yourself by such a statement," on which he attempted to run away, to escape through the shop—I called to them to stop him, which they did—a policeman was sent for, and he was given in charge—Mr. Williams at that time had an account at our house. ROBERT VAUGHAN WYNNE WILLIAMS . I am an attorney and solicitor, in Paper-buildings, Temple—the prisoners were both in my employ at writing clerks for some time, and together for about a year or fifteen' months—I was in the habit of drawing cheques on Snow's bank—Paybody had 18s. a week, and Bigg 15s.—I drew my cheques from a cheque-book which I kept in a drawer in my desk in my own room, locked up—previous to the prisoner's being taken into custody that cheque-book had become unsewn, but I do not know from what cause—that was while they were in my service—Paybody quitted me in April, this year, and Bigg in August—(looking at the three-cheques)—these are not my signatures, they are all forgeries—the signatures are a very good imitation of mine, but the body is not—the prisoners had opportunities of seeing my signature while in my office, constantly—I never sign the name of Vaughan, but merely Robert Wynne Williams—the name of Harrison is on two of these cheques as paid—he is my law-stationer—used to pay him cheques from time to time—I used to give them to him myself. THOMAS EDWARD WHITEHEAD . I am a policeman. I was called to Messrs. Paul's banking-house, on the 9th of October, and received Bigg in charge—I took him to the station, searched him, and found on him a 10l. note, No. 45222, dated July 10th, 1841, which I produce—I also found on him some blank cheques, similar in form to these produced—here are four of them. GEORGE WESTON . I am a policeman. I was on duty at the station when Bigg was brought there—Mr. Williams's clerk came with him—I heard him tell Mr. Williams's clerk that Pay body was at the bottom of it, and said, "You will find Paybody down by St. Clement's church, dressed in a butcher's dress"—in consequence of that I went down to St. Clement's church, which is twenty or thirty yards from the banker's—I did not succeed in finding him there—I returned to the station, but did not see Bigg again—I then went to Goodge-street, Tottenham-court-road, from information I received, and there found the prisoner Paybody, standing outside his shop, talking to a female—it was a butcher's shop—as soon as the female left him, I told him he was my prisoner, on suspicion of being concerned in uttering a cheque of 200l., on Sir John Paul—he said, "I know all about it"—I then told him he must go with me—I had a cab—waiting for him—he jumped into it, and on the way to the station I said, "I expected to find you down by the church"—I did not say what church—he said, "Who told you I was there?"—he said, "I will tell you the truth, I was there, Bigg called on me this afternoon, and asked me to go on a walk with him "—that he went as far as the church, and remained outside, while Bigg went in with the cheque, and he said, "I always considered Bigg to be a man of property"—when he said he knew all about it, I understood him to say that the female who had just left him, told him all about it, that he knew it from her. Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. Have you mentioned all this before to-day? A. Yes, at the first examination—Paybody was allowed to go on bail by the Magistrate, Mr. Hall, at the first examination. MR. BODKIN. Q. Was he afterwards taken into custody? A. I took him again on the Thursday following—the depositions were taken before that—what I said at the first examination was taken down by Mr. Bur-naby. JOSEPH GOSTICK . I am a clerk in the office of Mr. Williams. I saw Bigg the day he was taken into custody—he sent for me to a neighbouring Public-house—I went and found him there—he first asked me what was going on in the office—I said we were going on very well, and had plenty of business—he asked me if Mr. Williams was in town, and before I could answer, he said, "I know he is"—I said Mr. Williams was in Wales. JOHN CRAMP . I was in Simithfield in August last, I think on the 13th, and saw Paybody there—he was then carrying on business as a butcher—I saw him bargaining for five sheep with Mr. French, and he asked my opinion of them—I was present when he bought them for 31s. each. JOHN ARCHER . I am pen-man to Mr. French. On the 13th of August I delivered five sheep to a man with Mr. Gillatt, the drover—I first went over to Hill's, the banker's, and found they had been paid for. WILLIAM KIDD . I am in the employ of Mr. Gillatt, a drover—I drove nine sheep, by his direction, to Paybody—I think it was about four months ago, as near as I can guess—I cannot say whose pen they came from—I do not recollect driving five sheep there. JOHN GILLATT, JUN . I am the son of Mr. Gillatt, a drover—I received five sheep from French's drover, some time in August—I directed Joseph Davis to drive them to Paybody's. Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. Were you examined at Bow-street? A. Yes. JOSEPH DAVIS . I cannot recollect driving five sheep to Paybody's—I drove nine there on the 10th of September—I do not recollect driving any in August. Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. Were you examined at Bow-street? A. Yes. WILLIAM GRACE . I am clerk to Pocklington and Co., bankers, West Smithfield. These two 10l. notes—(Nos. 45217 and 45216, dated the 10th of July, 1841)—were paid into our bank on the 17th of September—I wrote on them at the time, "Paybody, Goodge-street," which was the name and address given by the party who paid them in—they were paid in to the account of William Henry Billing, a beast and sheep salesman, in Smith-field, for six sheep, at 385. each, 11l. 8s. it is our habit, unless sheep are paid for before three o'clock, to give an order for their delivery when paid for—it was after three o'clock—the order produced is what I gave—I cannot recognize the person who made the payment, whether it was Paybody or not—I gave it to the drover, who came afterwards—it is not usual to give it when the money is paid, unless asked for. JOSEPH AINSWORTH . I am a drover. On the 17th of September, Paybody sent me to Pocklington's for an order, where I got the order produced—I received it without paying any money, and gave it to Paybody, just by the Ram-yard, in Smithfield, an received six sheep from that yard, and drove them to his house in Goodge-street. Cross-examined. Q. Were you examined before the Magistrate? A. Yes. SAMUEL MAT . I recollect, on the 17th of September, six sheep being lodged at the Ram-yard, where I attend, in the name of Billing, by his drover—I have the book here in which they are entered—I delivered them to whoever brought the note, on the 17th of December. Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. Is the entry in your own writing? A. Yes—I do not know who brought the note for them. EDWARD WINNING . I am clerk to Jones and Co., bankers, Smithfield—(looking at four 10l. notes)—this note, No. 45218, was paid in on the 20th of September, with another, on account of Batten and Son, for nine sheep—the other three, Nos. 45223, 45224, and 45225, were paid in on the 27th, two to the account of Inwood, salesman, for nine sheep, and the other to Mountford, for two beasts, the whole of them have the name of Paybody on them, which I wrote when I received them. THOMAS GREGORY . I am penman to Mr. Batten, salesman, in Smith-field. On the 20th of September, I delivered nine sheep from his pen to Joseph Davis. JOSEPH DAVIS re-examined. I am drover to Mr. Gillatt. On the 20th of September, I received nine sheep from Thomas Gregory, and took them to Mr. Paybody's house—I heard him tell master he bought them of Batten. JOHN GILLATT . I am a drover. I had eleven sheep delivered to me, and sent my man with them to Paybody—I cannot say the dates, but while he was in business, I caused all he had to be driven—my son may have driven some to Paybody from Inwood, I never did. JOHN GILLATT, JUN ., re-examined. I drew nine sheep from Mr. In-wood wood's pen, between three and four months ago, and delivered them to Joseph Davis, to drive home to Paybody's. Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. Have you any memorandum which leads you to speak to them? A. No, I do not keep a book—I have given sheep to Davis before—I only speak to the time by guess but I never drew any but once from Inwood's. JOSEPH DAVIS re-examined. I drove nine sheep to Paybody's—they were given to me by Gillatt, junior, on the 20th of September. Cross-examined by Mr. CLARKSON. Q. Do you keep any book or memorandum? A. No, I noticed the day of the month, because I was out on Sunday, the 19th—my attention was called to it first at Bow-street—I cannot say how long after—I had sheep from Gillatt, junior, before, I think about a month before, and drove them to Paybody's that time—it was nine—it was Batten's nine which were delivered on the 20th of September, because Gillatt and I went together to draw them. MR. CHAMBERS. Q. Did you drive any from In wood's? A. Yes, nine—I cannot say when, but it was after I drove Batten's—I cannot say how long after. EDWARD IVENS . I am a salesman, and keep an account at Messrs. Pocklington's. When we sell beast in the market, it is usual for the person to pay the money into the bank, with the account—when they apply for the delivery of the beast, I generally send my drover to see if the money is paid in—I make an entry in my book of the transaction—I remember selling two beasts, on the 4th of October, for 34l., to Pay body—Jennings was my drover—the beast were fetched away in the usual course that day, I having ascertained that the money was paid into the bankers'. Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. By Paybody, do you mean the prisoner? A. I cannot say that—it was a person of that name—I do not know his father. MR. BODKIN. Q. What sort of beast were they? A. Half bred, between Shropshire and Hereford. JOHN GILLATT, JUN ., re-examined. I know Paybody the elder, he is a butcher—he does not live with his son, but in Lumber-court. JOHN CRAMP re-examined. I know the prisoner Paybody—he showed me these beast—I do not recollect the date—they were half bred, between Shropshire and Hereford—he told me he bought them of Mr. Ivens—it was on a Monday, several weeks back. EDWARD IVENS re-examined. I did not sell him two beast of this description on any other day than the 4th of October—it was the first time I sold to that name—I have my book here. BENJAMIN LACEY . I am one of the firm of Pocklington and Co., bankers, Smithfield. This note, No. 45220, dated the 10th of July, 1841, was paid into our house on account of two beast, in the name of Paybody, to the account of Mr. Ivens. JOHN JENNINGS . I am drover to Mr. Ivens. I remember two beast being bought of master on the 4th of October—the prisoner Paybody was one of the party who bought them—I saw him buy them—I delivered them to John Gillatt. JOHN GILLATT, JUN ., re-examined. On the 4th of October two beast were delivered to me from Jennings for the prisoner Paybody—Kidd, one of my men, drove them. WILLIAM KIDD re-examined. On the 4th of October I drove two beast, by the desire of Mr. Gillatt, to the upper slaughter-house, Clare-market—I delivered them to Bates, for Paybody. JOHN BATES . I belong to the upper slaughter-house—we slaughter beast for Paybody. On the 4th of October, I slaughtered two beast brought by Kidd, for Paybody. Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. Were there other beast there at the time? A. Yes, different breeds. JOHN MOUNTFORD . On the 27th of September, I sold two beast at Smithfield to somebody unknown, who gave in the name of Paybody, for 36l.—I told him to pay it into Jones and Co., my bankers—after I heard they were paid for they were taken away. JOHN GILLATT, SEN . I received two beast on the 27th of September from Mountford's drover—by Paybody's direction I told Kidd to drive them to the upper slaughter-house for him. WILLIAM KIDD re-examined. I drove two beast to the upper-house for Paybody on the 27th of September. JOHN BATES re-examined. I—have a book in which I enter the names of persons who send beast—I have not got it here—I recollect on the 27th of September, two black beast coming for Paybody, I slaughtered them—two halves of the carcasses went to Newport-market, and two to his shop, by his direction—one bullock was killed on Monday, the other on Tuesday. HENRY GOODING . I am clerk to Jones and Co., bankers, Smithfield. On the 20th of September, a 10l. bank-note, No. 63306, dated the 10th of June, 1841, was paid into our home on Mr. Batten's account, for nine sheep—I do not know the person. JOSEPH DAVIS re-examined. On the 20th of "September, I drove nine sheep to Paybody's house from Batten's pen. JOHN BROOM . I am penman at Mr. Mossman's, salesman, Smithfield. On the 30th of July, I recollect Paybody buying four sheep at 28s. each—Mr. Biggerstaff are master's bankers—after inquiring if they were paid for they were delivered to Gillatt to drive. JOHN GILLATT JUN ., re-examined. I received an order from Paybody to get four sheep from Broom—I caused them to be delivered to Paybody. JOHN BIGGERSTAFF . I am a banker at Smithfield. This 10l. note, No. 03909, dated the 10th of June, 1841, was paid in on the 30th of July, for four sheep, at 28s. each, bought of Mossman, in the name of Pay-body—I do not know who paid it in. ROWLAND WILSON . I am clerk to Mr. Cooper, meat-salesman, New-port-market; Paybody dealt with him for meat. On the 24th of July, I received this 10l. note, No. 03911, dated 10th of June, 1841, from him, in payment for meat. CHARLES WARD re-examined. I paid this 5l. cheque purporting to be drawn by Mr. Williams at our banking-house, on the 22nd of July—I gave for it Nos. 03907, 8, 9, 10, and 11 10l. notes, dated 10th June, 1841—I do not know to whom I paid it. MR. WILLIAMS re-examined. This cheque is not my writing, nor was it written by my authority—it is altogether a forgery. MR. BURNABY. I am chief-clerk at Bow-street, police-court. I was in attendance when Paybody was first brought on a charge on the 11th of December, before Mr. Hail, the Magistrate—I took down what the witnesses stated, and have it here—Bigg was on that occasion remanded and Paybody allowed to go at large on bail—he was brought to the office a second time on the 15th of October, on the same charge—I was in attendance—Mr. Jardine was the Magistrate then—Mr. Hall did not attend to it further with regard to the prisoners, that I am aware of—I am not the clerk who prepared the depositions for the Court. Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. You was present at the statement made by Weston? A. I do not know whether he was examined afterwards—I was not present—the statement he made on the 11th of October was not returned—I have it here. (Robert Jeffries, butcher, Nos. 3 and 4, Fitzroy-court, Tottenham-court-road; Edward Ireland, butcher, Newgate-market; William Randall, coffee-house-keeper, No. 119, Blackfriars-road; William Langfield, carpenter, No. 15, Great Chapel-street; Ann Stock, wife of Edward Stock, lighterman, No. 10, Bond-court, Walbrook; and Eliza Lassy, wife of a pianoforte-maker, No. 3, Chapel-street, Tottenham-court-road; deposed to Paybody's good character: and Edward Hopper, rope-maker, Osmond-terrace, Blackfriars-road; Richard Rolfe, gentleman, No. 40, Brewer-street, Somerstown; and Richard Jackson Tugwell, Brook-hill, Clerken-well, to that of Bigg.) BIGG— GUILTY . Aged 20— Transported for Fifteen Years. PAYBODY— GUILTY . Aged 20.— Transported for Twenty Years.