John Cahuac

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C H on 14th February 2024

THOMAS BEEMAN. JOHN CAHUAC. Theft; grand larceny (to 1827), Theft; receiving. 10th September 1823. Text type Trial account Defendants THOMAS BEEMAN, JOHN CAHUAC Offences Theft > Grand larceny, Theft > Receiving Session Date 10th September 1823 Reference Number t18230910-57 Verdicts Guilty, Guilty Punishments Transportation, Transportation 1030. THOMAS BEEMAN was indicted for stealing on the 1st of August , eleven printed books, value 40 l. , the goods of Benjamin Bensley ; and JOHN CAHUAC was indicted for feloniously receiving the same, well knowing them to be stolen . TWO OTHER COUNTS, stating it to be three thousand sheets of printed paper, instead of books. MESSRS. ADOLPHUS and BRODRICK conducted the prosecution. MR. BENJAMIN BENSLEY . I am a printer , and live in Bolt-Court, Fleet-street. Beeman was nine weeks in my service, as warehouseman , up to the middle of August, when he was apprehended - he had access to all the works which were printed. I finished an octavo edition of Lingard's History of England in June last. Beeman collated it principally; to see that the sheets were placed correctly. In consequence of information, I examined my stock, but did not complete the examination, till the latter end of August, and found I was fifteen or twenty copies short; eight volumes to each copy. I was printing it for Mr. Mawman. Mr. Fellows was his foreman; I accompanied him to Cahuac's shop, Blackman-street, Borough, on the 5th of August; I went in alone; he was a stranger to me. I said to him, "Do you sell Lingard's History of England?" he answered "Yes;" I asked the price, saying I should want several, he said "He had them, and I could have them, and the price was 3 l. a copy." A gentleman was in the shop; I came out, joined Fellows, and we went in together. Fellows began to speak about an account due to Mr. Mawnan, and then said, "However, that is not what brought me here exactly, but something much more important. I understand you have been offering about Lingard's History of England, at a very reduced price, which seems the more extraordinary, as you were at Mr. Mawman's sale not a month ago, and refused to purchase any." Cahuac seemed very confused, and said "Oh, I never had but two, I have only got two." I said "How can that be, for just now you offered me several;" Fellows said "You know you have offered a respectable bookseller six within the last day or two, and therefore you had better mind what you are at." Fellows had a good deal of conversation with him, and said, "Mr. Cahuac, you have at any rate been guilty of a great indiscretion, to say the least, in buying a book, so as to be able to sell at such a price already; pray who did you buy them of?" he said he bought them of a man. I asked what man, and where; he then said he bought them behind a counter. I asked what he gave, he said 2 l. 10 s. a copy, and paid the money down on the counter. I asked frequently of whom he bought them, he said he knew neither the name nor address, nor was he quite certain he should know the person, but thought he should; that the first circumstance which led him to purchase them, was a man calling representing himself to be a messenger from the Bench, stating that he came in behalf of a prisoner there; we asked him to take us to that man, as we were near the Bench; he said "Oh, I don't know that he is a messenger; only he said he was;" I said, "Really you give us no information, I am very sorry for your own sake, that you cannot give a better account," and left the shop Cross-examined by MR. ANDREWS. Q. You have known Cahuac some years - A. I never heard his name before. Fellows told him, if it had not been for the auctioneer he would not have trusted him. I understand that to be the first time he attended the sale. It was on the 5th of August we went to him; at that time we were not certain that any copies were actually lost - he said he had the copies, but they were at the binder's, being boarded for him. We went again ten days after, and seized some sheets, as ours, but found no copy of Lingard's History of England, on his premises - he was committed to Horsemonger-lane. I printed 1015 or 1025 copies. I rely on the number from the nature of printing; when paper is given out by one hand, it is wetted by another - if there is any trickery, the whole office must be aware of it, if they print less; it depends on my servants whether they are stowed away properly. I hear that four hundred copies were sold at the sale; 3 l. was the lowest price, with a copy given in with twenty-four. Q. When Cahuac was informed you were robbed, did he not go about with you, and give every assistance he could to detect the person who robbed you - A. When he was apprehended, going along, he was terribly frightened, and offered to go to the gaol to point the man out if he could see him. Beeman was apprehended previously. We went to the gaol, but were not allowed to see the prisoners. Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. He mentioned no name - A. No. Beeman was not a prisoner in the Bench. I have three or four warehousemen; they all have access to the warehouse. I may have a hundred men; they have no business in the warehouse. MR. BRODRICK. Q. Was it the duty of any other man to collate the work - A. Clapperton and him collated it; it is put by as soon as collated. On going to Cahuac a second time, we found part of the wrapper of a magazine - I told him it was impossible that could have come into his possession in a fair way; he said he had many such things. I could only deliver 998 copies of the work, some of which are not perfect. I assisted in taking stock - we were nearly a fortnight about it at intervals. BENJAMIN FELLOWS . I am principal assistant to Mr. Mawman, of Ludgate-hill; he is proprietor of Lingard's History of England; a new edition, in octavo, was printed this year, and a trade dinner given, at which the booksellers fix the price of books; there are sale prices, lowest sale prices, trade and publishing prices - the reduced sale price fixed at the dinner was 3 l. to those who took less than twenty-four copies, and those who took twenty-four had a bonus of one copy, that is the lowest price it could possibly be obtained at by any one. Cahuac was at the dinner, and heard this agreement; it was declared publicly by Mr. Mawman; being an article of importance he called the attention of the meeting particularly to it; those who did not buy at the dinner were to pay 3 l. 4 s., to be delivered in sheets only, not stitched. The trade price would be 3 l. 8 s., the selling price, in boards, is 4 l. 16 s.; to a general customer; it was stated at the dinner, that after that day nobody could have them under 3 l. 8 s. Mr. Bensley afterwards delivered 405 copies to Mr. Mawman, or his order. The trade dinner was on the 23d of April, and the work published on the 24th of June. It has never declined in price. Mr. Dowding, the bookseller, sent us some information, in consequence of which I examined Mr. Mawman's stock; there was no deficiency, in consequence of which I sent to Mr. Bensley, and went with him to Cahuac's shop; he went in first, came out, and I went in with him. I had a demand of about 20 l. on him, and after applying for it, I said I had an unpleasant business to mention; that I was informed he had copies of Lingard to sell much below the price. I was certain they must have been stolen, and that probably he would say from whom he had got them, and I should be obliged by his informing me. He hesitated for a moment, and then said he had bought two copies from a person in his own shop. I said I was sorry to find he was endeavouring to mislead me, for I could produce a person to whom he had within a day or two offered six copies. He then admitted that he had bought six, but had had no more. I urged him to tell me the name or address of the person of whom he bought them. He said he did not know his name or address; he went on to say that he had had various dealings with this same person during the three or four former months. I said I thought it strange he should buy quire books of a stranger. He said his dealings with the person commenced in consequence of an application from a messenger or turnkey of the King's Bench. I requested him to walk over there with me, and point out the person. He hesitated for a few seconds, and said he could not tell whether the man was or not what he stated himself to be. I said I thought it strange, as he declined purchasing a single copy at the sale, that he should venture on purchasing six of a stranger (six copies would be forty-eight volumes, five hundred pages to a volume). He said he thought the price asked by Mr. Mawman, 3 l. too much, and therefore did not purchase at the sale; that he gave 2 l. 5 s. a copy for these. Nothing further passed; we left the shop. I found three copies that day at Mr. Renshaw's, in Fleet-street. Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. At the time he said the person who offered them was in the King's Bench, Beeman was not in custody? - A. No. Cross-examined by MR. LAW. Q. The only copies you found were three of Redshaws? - A. Yes, Mr. Bensley had delivered four hundred and five; they, of course, had got into circulation. There had been no reduction in price. JOHN CLINTON . I am an officer. On 14th August, about eight o'clock, in consequence of information, I apprehended Beeman in Fleet-street; I asked him to feel in his pockets, as I apprehended he had something not his own. I asked him to feel in his fob, as that was the only pocket in which he did not feel. He said he had no fob. I put my fingers into his fob, and found something interrupted my getting them in. I asked him to undo his waistband. I found he had a fob, and said "You have a fob." He said, "Well, if I have, there is nothing in it." It was doubled up; I unfolded it, and took out of the fob two papers. He said they were two memorandums of his. I asked what memorandums; he said only two memorandums that he took some time ago - I asked how long ago; he said between two and three years. I took him back to his master's, and the same evening went with Pople to his lodging, No. 13, Thomas-street, Stamford-street, and found among other things, this paper (looking at it) on a rack on the mantle-shelf. He was taken to Guildhall next day, and then to Union Hall. I produced the three memorandums there, and on the 16th went to Cahuac's, and executed a search warrant there, but found no Lingard's History. I had been there nearly all day on the 15th, but he was not at home. I observed two or three account books on his counter. He came home that evening, and next day they were gone. Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. Beeman had an opportunity to send to his lodgings before you went - A. I went as quick as I could. JOHN DOWDING . I am a bookseller, and live in Newgate-street. About the 26th or 28th of July, Cahuac called on me, and offered six copies of octavo, of Lingard's History of England, at 2 l. 10 s. a copy; he had none of them with him. I bought none, but sent to Mr. Mawman in about four days to inform him. JAMES COOPER . I am a bookseller, and live in Fisher's-alley, Water-lane, Fleet-street, (looking at the paper found at Beeman's lodgings) this is my writing. On the 18th of July, I bought of Cahuac, at his shop, or agreed to buy, six copies of Linguard's History of England, octavo, at 2 l. 10 s. a copy, five copies only were delivered during my absence. I found them at my shop when I came home one day. My brother sent them to be boarded. On the 1st of August, I exchanged three copies with Mr. Renshaw, for Cumming's Digest - the other two copies were returned by Mr. Agg, the binder, as imperfect - in consequence of which, I went to Cahuac with a list of the imperfections; on the 2nd of August I left it with him; I told him I had made three perfect copies out of the five, and there was a list of the imperfections of the other two copies - he said he would see to it, and have them made perfect. Mr. Fellows called on me on the 5th of August, and after that Cahuac called at my shop on the subject of the sixth copy. I told him I was positive it never had been delivered - he said, he thought it had. I sent for Agg, who told him he only received five. After that I went to Cahuac, and told him Fellows had called on me, and asked me how I became possessed of the work, and I had told him I had them of him - he said that was right. I saw no more of him till the 14th or 15th of August, when he called, and said, "I will take those imperfect copies of Lingard out of your way;" and I accordingly delivered them to him in my shop, which is in the City. Cross-examined by MR. ANDREWS. Q. Have you been in the trade long - A. From fourteen years of age. I never saw him bring a copy to my shop - I was unacquainted with the market price of the work - there are persons called middle men, who go about exchanging books in different ways; when I delivered him the two copies, he took them away; they were in sheets very imperfect. MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Was a copy of Lingard offered to you, except by Cahuac - A. Not the octavo; he applied to me about them by note. GEORGE COOPER . I am brother to James Cooper , and assist in his shop - five copies of Lingard were brought to the shop in July, Cahuac himself brought one, and his son afterwards delivered four. I sent them to Agg to be boarded, and received this list of imperfections (looking at a paper produced) from him, and believe I gave it to Cahuac's son. Cross-examined by MR. ANDREWS. Q. Were you at home when he brought them - A. Yes, they were brought by day-light wrapped in paper; there was no concealment. - AGG. I live in Temple-street, and bound books for Cooper. I received five copies of Lingard from James Cooper ; they were quite imperfect. I completed two copies, and sent the imperfections to Cooper, and by taking from the imperfect works completed another (looks at a paper) this is the list I delivered to James Cooper ; they were returned to Cooper, none of them being boarded. JOHN RENSHAW . I am a bookseller, and live in Fleet-street. My brother bought three copies of Lingard's History of England of Cooper. I afterwards delivered them to Clinton. JOHN CLAPPERTON . I am warehouseman to Mr. Bensley - Beeman was under warehouseman. He and I collated this work. (looking at Agg's list of imperfections). I found this on the desk in my master's warehouse in July, and asked Beeman where it came from. He said, "It is just left." I said, "This won't do - this is a very pretty note, where is the return or waste sheets - it is usual to return spoiled sheets, and we send perfect ones for them." He made no reply that I recollect. Here is some writing at the back of the paper which I believe to be Beeman's; I have seen him write two or three times a day. I put the paper on a nail, kept for the purpose. Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. You are still in Mr. Bensley's service - A. Yes; nobody but me and him, and the three boys, have business in the warehouse - it is distinct from the printing-office. Q. If Beeman had the paper to make up deficiencies, could he not have kept it in his pocket, and made them up secretly - A. Yes, unless he was careless enough to leave it there. He did not object to my looking at it. I put it on the nail to answer whoever might call for it, that I should not give those sheets. I told Beeman it was a very irregular note - no application being made. I turned it over and said, I believed the writing on the back to be Beeman's; he might have moved it if he liked. Cross-examined by MR. LAW. Q. Did you assist in taking stock - A. I counted the copies, and gave Mr. Bensley the account. I made as many perfect books as I could, and looked over the waste sheets and ascertained the deficiency - whole volumes, and parts of volumes, were deficient. I gave the paper out to be printed - we should have a considerable quantity more than we had. MR. BRODRICK. Q. Did you take stock so as to satisfy your mind of the deficiency - A. Yes, the work should run twelve or fourteen sets over one thousand, but it was under one thousand; nobody ever called for the deficiency with my knowledge. It is my place to look out the binders' imperfections. They leave the lists and call next day; there is "Mr. C" written on the paper. I cannot say whether it was there when I first saw it. I cannot form a judgment whose writing it is in. It struck me strange that any book should be delivered out so imperfect; there is in one case twelve sheets wanting together. This list was here read - it was an account of various sheets wanted to complete the work, and stated to have been bought of Mr Morgan, by Anderson, Piccadilly. WILLIAM ANDERSON . I am a bookseller, and live in Piccadilly - there is no other of my name there. I bought none of Lingard in July or August, nor ever sent to Mawman's or Bensley's any demands for deficiencies. I never saw this paper till to-day. Cross-examined by MR. PHILLIPS. Q. Do you know Beeman - A. Perfectly well; he was frequently at my house with books, and for books formerly. MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. When you have bought Lingard, what did you give for it - A. 3 l. 12 s. in boards. I bought it at Whittakers'; the price in sheets was 3 l. 8 s. MR. HARMER. I am a solicitor. I was present when Beeman was examined at Union Hall, what he said was not written down. I am certain that the paper found at his lodging was produced. I asked if he chose to give any account of it; he said he had it from some of the binders; he could not tell the name. The papers produced were here read. That found at Beeman's lodging, written by Cooper, and delivered by him to Cahuac, was an account of imperfections and deficiencies; those found in Beeman's fob were two duplicate lists of various works, among which were eleven copies of Lingard's History of England, at 25 s. each; the prices annexed to all: the total amount was 18 l. 0 s. 6 d., and 9 l. 10 s. deducted us received. MR. BENSLEY. All the books mentioned in this list are printed by me. I never sold Beeman any of them, or allowed him to dispose of them. ALFRED POPLE . I am an officer. I produce three sets of Lingard's History of England, which I got from Mr. Bensley. JOHN CLINTON . I got those from Mr. Renshaw, and delivered them to Mr. Bensley. BEEMAN'S Defence. It was impossible for me to take a copy off the premises at any time, for I never went out of the office alone; as to the note found at my lodgings. I took it home on Saturday, instead of putting it on the nail; as to the note found in the desk, I shewed it to Clapperton, and said, I had told the boy who brought it, that it was impossible he could have the sheets; he said he came from Anderson's, Piccadilly; I wrote that on the back. I never saw Cahuac, till I saw him at Union-hall. Cahauc put in a long written defence, stating that he never saw Beeman till he was in custody, but bought the copies in the fair way of trade, and if he had been allowed bail, he could have traced the man from the King's Bench, where he had originally been. BEEMAN - GUILTY . Aged 42. Transported for Seven Years . CAHUAC - GUILTY . Aged 49. Transported for Fourteen Years . Old Bailey Proceedings Online (www.oldbaileyonline.org, version 9.0) September 1823. Trial of THOMAS BEEMAN , JOHN CAHUAC (t18230910-57). Available at: https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/record/t18230910-57?text=Cahuac

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C H on 14th February 2024

NSW Convict Applications to Marry 1825-1841 Record ID nam6850 Given names John Surname Cahuac Age 53 Sentence 14 yrs Sentence term 14 Marital status Bond. Is the applicant a convict? convict Ship Phoenix Spouse Sarah Allen Is the proposed spouse a convict? not_convict Permission date 30 Jul 1828 Clergyman Revd R. Hill Place Sydney

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Penny-Lyn Beale on 2nd May 2021

Old Bailey Proceedings Online Born; 1774 Imprisoned; 1823. Age; 49 September 1823, trial of THOMAS BEEMAN JOHN CAHUAC (t18230910-57). THOMAS BEEMAN, JOHN CAHUAC, Theft > grand larceny, Theft > receiving, 10th September 1823. 1030. THOMAS BEEMAN was indicted for stealing on the 1st of August , eleven printed books, value 40 l. , the goods of Benjamin Bensley ; and JOHN CAHUAC was indicted for feloniously receiving the same, well knowing them to be stolen . TWO OTHER COUNTS, stating it to be three thousand sheets of printed paper, instead of books. https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/print.jsp?div=t18230910-57

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Penny-Lyn Beale on 2nd May 2021

1825 - Petitions for his family to be sent out to the Colony at Government expense. Wife & 2 children, a youth aged 18 years ad a daughter 20 years of age. He is 54 years of age [Est birth date; 1771] 1825 - 20 Aug; Reply. Allowed 1828 - Census. No; 31 Hy S. Cahuac. [Henry St John Cahuac] Age; 20. Came Free - Ship; Cumberland. 1825. Protestant. Clerk Principal. Supt of Convicts Darling Harbour, Sydney No; 32. Mis S. Cahuac No; 33. Ticket of Leave. Ship; Phoenix - 1823. 14 years. Age; 55. Store keeper. Male Orphan School. District; Cabramatta 1828 New South Wales, Australia Census (TNA Copy) No; 1749 Name; John Cahuae [John Cahuac] Age; 55 Ship; Phoenix - 1823 [1824] Sentence; 7 years Religion; Catholic Assigned; Male orphan school Cabramatta. T.L. Noted; Against name; DEAD: Dec 1832