Mary Carty

343

Maureen Withey on 23rd January 2023

NSW Convict Index. Mary Carty, per Alexander 1806, Ticket of Leave, No 11/198. Tried MGD, 7 years.

343

Maureen Withey on 24th April 2020

Old Bailey Proceedings Online (www.oldbaileyonline.org, version 8.0, 24 April 2020), September 1805, trial of MARY CARTY ANN LEISTED MARY SOWDEN ALICE SWINNS SARAH WELCH JANE CURTIS JOHN PRICE (t18050918-19). MARY CARTY, ANN LEISTED, MARY SOWDEN, ALICE SWINNS, SARAH WELCH, JANE CURTIS, JOHN PRICE, Theft > housebreaking, 18th September 1805. 540. MARY CARTY , ANN LEISTED , MARY SOWDEN , ALICE SWINNS , SARAH WELCH , JANE CURTIS , and JOHN PRICE , were indicted for feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Hannah Welch , widow , no person being in the dwelling-house, about the hour of two in the afternoon, on the 8th of August, and feloniously stealing a shawl, value 4 s. 6 d. a table-cloth, value 2 s. and 20 l. in money , the property of the said Hannah Welch . HANNAH WELCH sworn. - Q. In what parish did you live in August last? - A. In St. Giles's . Q. Did you, in August last lose any property? - A. Yes, I lost 20 l. in money: four of the prisoners were lodgers in my house, their names were Nance Jones , Kit Lowrin (but now they have changed their names, you see), and Jenny Curtis , and Mary Carty : I left them in care of my house; I promised Mary M'Cape one night's lodging free for putting two pieces on a broken sheet. Q. Who is Mary M'Cape? - A. Mary Sowden : I left my house in the care of Mary Carty , Ann Leisted , Mary Sowden , and Jane Curtis , and promised them a night's lodging free; they were enticing me for two days to go and see a particular friend of mine, and they promised to take care of my house. On the 8th of August I went out at one o'clock, and I did not return till nine o'clock at night, and when I came home I found my door double-locked, as I left it; but the ceiling was broken before and behind; I did not see it that night, I went to bed and slept until the Hatton-garden officers came and awoke me; they told me to get up and look if there was any thing amiss; I did, and found my chest half open, the box broken, and nothing in it but a parcel of bad halfpence. Q. What had you left in the chest? - A. There were ten bundles, with two pounds in each bundle, in silver and copper; the officers told me to dress myself and get up, they had got them snug enough. I had seen my chest on the 8th of August, the very instant I had dressed myself, just before I went out, because there were four shillings in the corner of it which I took out and locked the chest again, and all the money was there then. Q. Did you see the parcels in it? - A. Yes, and counted them. They had cut the string of my keys and kept two of them; every week I lost something or other since they lodged with me, which has been a quarter of a year, and Jack Price is the chief man of them all: I lost 30 s. in caps and sheets and linen, but I took care of the money because I looked at that every day: I am a poor desolate widow. Q. Did you miss any thing else? - A. I lost a shawl that I had bought in Oxford-road, from the head of my bed, and they took a night-cap with my name on it and stop thief in full length. Q. Have you found any of your things again? A. Only the money which is here (they have spent the rest), the shawl, and the cap, they were at the Justice's. Q. When you returned home were any of the prisoners at your house? - A. No. Q. Were the four persons you have described lodgers at your house at that time? - A. Yes, they were, and they were lodgers off and on for this half-year. Q. Did they come home that night? - A. No, they were taken that night. Cross-examined by Mr. Gurney. Q. Mrs. Welch, where did you live then? - A. In Philips-yard, Diot-street. Q. What are you? - A. I am an old woman. Q. How do you get your living? - A. By letting out a few old beds. Q. Who they are, and what they are, you do not make enquiry about that? - A. No. Q. How many lodgers had you in the house besides these? - A. No person at all in my apartments but these. Q. How many apartments have you? - A. I have a back and a front room. Q. Had you no more than two rooms? - A. These were particular to myself; they used to sleep in the front room, all four in two beds. Q. Where did Price sleep? - A. He rented alittle room of me, and he pretended he had lost the key; his room was within a yard and a half of my place. Q. Was it adjoining the front room? - A. No. Q. Had you more than these three rooms? - A. Yes. Q. How many rooms had you altogether? - A. I have nine or ten both large and small; there is a room here and a room there, in a gallery over stables in a coach-yard, they broke through the ceiling of my chamber to get into my room. Q. I ask you how many lodgers you had there at that time in the other apartments, besides these five? - A. They were all out; I had locked the rooms up; they walk out by day and come home at night. Q. Had you any hope of getting any reward by indicting as you have done? - A. I am both stupid and ignorant. Q. I want to see how far this stupidity and ignorance goes. - Have you not indicted them as you have done that you might get a reward? - A. I do not know whether I would or not. Q. Do you not hope you would? - A. I hope in God I would. Q. How much do you hope you would get? - A. I cannot say. Q. You can reckon how much seven times forty would amount to: You know seven times forty pounds would amount to a great deal of money? - A. Yes. Q. Do not you hope to get that? - A. That lies to the gentlemen, but not to me. Q. Do not you hope to get forty pounds a-piece for all the seven? - A. No, no: I would not wish to get it. Q. You just now said you hoped in God you would? - A. I beg your pardon, I thought it was my own money. Q. Upon your oath, had not you the hope of getting forty pounds a-piece? - A. I would not wish it. Q.You would not take it if it was offered you? - A.These are cross questions to pass to an ignorant old woman. JAMES HANCOCK sworn. - I am an officer of Hatton-garden: I produce the money which I found in Little Bell-alley, at the house of one Mr. Henry or Mrs. Henry: previous to my finding the money, I had information that there was coining going forward in the house; I took three of my brother officers with me and went to No. 4, Little Bell-alley; after we had searched the lower apartment, we went up one pair of stairs, the room-door we forced, and we found the prisoners at the bar in the room, all of them; it was about half past seven in the evening, on the 8th of August. I found a quantity of money in the room; this parcel was in a man's hat, to the amount of one pound, wanting a farthing, in penny pieces, halfpence, and farthings; and this parcel I found tied up in a canvas apron, amounting to one pound one, they are penny pieces, halfpence, and farthings; in this handkerchief I found, in good silver, two pounds sixteen shillings and sixpence, and two and sixpence in bad silver; one of the shillings the prosecutrix says she can speak to; upon the prisoner, Alice Swinns , I found a number of duplicates and 19 s. 1 d. in money, in silver and copper: I did not find any money on any of the parties excepting on Swinns the nineteen shillings and a housewife: The parcels of money were separated in different parcels about the room; there is also an halfpenny which she can speak to: we took them into custody to the Office: We went to Hannah Welch in the morning, and told her that she had been robbed (Price desired to speak privately to the Magistrate, but he was not admitted an evidence). When I went to Hannah Welch 's house I observed the ceiling had been broke directly over the head of the bed. Price (To Hancock.) Q. Who was the person that sent you to Mrs. Welch to let her know that she had lost her property? - A. It is very plain that we could find it out, when her name was on the cloth that some of the money was wrapped up in. GEORGE WOOD sworn. - Q. You were present when Hancock was making this search in Bell-alley? - A. I was: We broke the door open to enter the room; I searched the prisoner, Mary Sowden ; I found in her pocket sixteen pence in penny pieces and halfpence, and some silver; I cannot say how much it was, because it was mixed; afterwards I searched her body, and I found a shawl stuffed under the hind part of her gown; I then moved her from where she stood, and there I found 4 l. 12 s. laying on the ground, where she stood, in silver. THOMAS WHITE sworn. - I was present with Wood and Hancock at the search in Bell-alley; we found the door fastened, and we forced it and found all the prisoners in the room; I found 3 l. and 7 d. in a cloth in a chair between the two tables, counted up in sixpences; I put the money in the table-cloth while Wood and Hancock searched the prisoners. (The shawl, cap, tablecloth, and a halfpenny with a hole in it, were identified by the prosecutrix.) Price's defence. There are two of these girls who are standing here as prisoners who know nothing of this robbery. I leave myself entirely to the mercy of the Court. Mary Carty 's defence. I know nothing about this robbery, and these two young women are innocent of the robbery. (Pointing to them.) Mary Sowden's defence. Alice Swinns and Sarah Welch know nothing about it. Jane Curtis 's defence. I know nothing about it whatever. Curtis called two witnesses, and Leisted called witnesses, who gave them a good character. Carty, GUILTY, aged 19. Sowden, GUILTY, aged 18. Curtis, GUILTY, aged 20. Price, GUILTY, aged 19. Of stealing only . Transported for seven years . Leisted, GUILTY, aged 28. Of stealing only . Confined twelve months in the House of Correction , and fined 1 s. Swinns, NOT GUILTY . Welch, NOT GUILTY . Second Middlesex Jury, before Mr. Baron Sutton .