Thomas Hopkins

218

Dianne Jones on 2nd October 2023

TRIAL: 1866, 11 June: Old Bailey (Central Criminal Court), London: 533. THOMAS HOPKINS (22) for the wilful murder of Sarah Hopkins. MR. SLEIGH conducted the Prosecution, and MR. THOMPSON and MR. RIBTON the Defence. ROSETTA GILES . My husband's name is John—we live at 4, Eaton-place, Edmonton, next door to where the prisoner and his wife occupy two rooms—they took two rooms and let one—they live on the ground floor—I have known them twelve months—on the night of 21st May I was at the Bell at Edmonton—I cannot say the time, but the gas was alight—I was behind the bar, and saw the prisoner come in—I did not see his wife there then, but she came in an hour or half an hour afterwards—a soldier was playing the bagpipes in the tap-room, and the prisoner was jumping with the rest of us, they call it dancing—he dropped a paper feather from his cap and turned round and accused a woman there of taking it out—she said that she had not touched it—he said that she had, and Mrs. Hopkins got up off the seat, and said to the prisoner, "You have been out all day, and now you have come home for a d—d row, and if you begin I shall begin"—he said nothing to her—she got up again, and said, "If you don't hold your noise I shall put this pot at your head" or "on your head"—that was a quart pewter pot—I went to the other end of the room, and left them having words—I could not hear what they were saying—they afterwards passed by us and went out of the Bell—in about three quarters of an hour I heard that something had occurred, went to the prisoner's house, and saw the prisoner's wife lying on the floor, on her back, in one of the rooms they occupied—she was in a gore of blood—the prisoner came in, and Dr. Biddle, who took up a knife, and the prisoner said, "That is not the knife"—nothing had been said to him by the doctor which caused that remark—Dr. Biddle then took up another knife, and the prisoner made the reply that that was it—I saw some blood on it and said to the prisoner, "This is a shocking case, Tom"—he said, "Will you give me a knife or a razor, to cut my throat?"—I said, "I should not like, Tom"—he said, "Will you hold the candle while I kiss her?"—I said, "I will"—I took the candle off the table, and held it to her face—he knelt down and kissed her three times, and said, "God bless you; I would give all the world if you could speak once more"—I said, "You would, Tom, but it is too late"—he said, "I know it is too late; it is no use your telling me now; I have done it through jealousy "—a policeman came, and he gave himself in custody. Cross-examined. Q. Had you known the prisoner and Mrs. Hopkins long? A. I knew them from the time they came there to live, and I knew Mrs. Hopkins before for two or three years. I have seen much of them since they have been married—they lived beside me—she was a very violent woman if she had drink, and a powerful woman—I have seen them quarrel, but have not seen her strike him, or catch him by the handkerchief—there were words only, not blows—I saw them quarrelling as recently as a fort-night or three weeks before Whitsuntide. I am not quite sure he used the words, "I have done it through jealousy," because I was so confused; but I know he said that he did it through jealousy, and jealousy was the cause of it—I am sure he used the word jealousy—when I said that I was not quite sure, I did not understand you—"I have done it, " he said, "through jealousy, and jealousy was the cause"—I was not taking much notice of your question, I was looking at the prisoner, because my trouble is great, being a neighbour and all—I am sure he said so—I know that his wife was jealous of him—he said it was jealousy that caused him to do it. COURT. Q. You said at first that he said, "I have done it through jealousy," and the learned Counsel asked you, and you said, "No, I am not quite sure, "can you recollect the very words he said? A. All I can recollect is, that he said he had done it through jealousy. ELIZABETH ABDY . I am the wife of James Abdy, and live in the same house that the prisoner and his wife lived in—on Monday night, 21st May, about half past eleven, I was sitting outside the door on a bench, and saw the prisoner coming towards the house—he was alone—he went and unlocked his door and lit his candle—I saw him go inside, and not many minutes afterwards he came out and asked my husband, who was with me, if he had seen his old woman—he said, "I have not seen her since the morning"—the prisoner went indoors, and I followed him in—he went to the cupboard, took some knives out, took one away and sharpened it on the hearth—I said, "Tom, what are you going to do?"—he said, "I'll see what I will do"—about a minute after he had sharpened the knife, his wife came in—she went into the passage—he just came out of the room, and she went towards him, and took his hat off his head—I did not see him do anything—I waited, and his wife called to me,"Bet, look at the blood running down my frock"—I caught her in my arms, and she said, "The b—has done for me, I am a done woman, and with that she fell out of my arms—he said, "I have stabbed my wife, and I will go and fetch a doctor"—he went away for a doctor, and I remained with his wife—not two minutes elapsed from the time she took hold of her husband's hat till she called out "Bet! Bet!" Cross-examined. Q. Did you see her catch him round the neck? A. Yes, and she took his hat off with her right hand—I did not see her catch his neck-cloth—she did not catch him round the neck with both bands, that I saw—she pulled his hat off with one hand—they both of them had one another in the passage round their necks—I cannot say that she was clinging round his neck—I have known them quarrel before, and have seen quarrels take place—I never saw her catch him by the neck-cloth—I never saw them have a bother before—I have been living there nearly five weeks—I do not know that she was in the habit of catching him by the neck-cloth and twisting it round—I do not know whether he was in the habit of having supper late when he came home—there was a table in the room, and a table-cloth on the table—I did not see any meat or bread on the table. COURT. Q. Was the table set for supper; were the knives and forks on it? A. No. JAMES ABDY. I am the husband of the last witness—on the night this occurred, I was sitting outside my door with my wife, and saw the prisoner come up and go into his own place—that was about half-past 11, or a little later—he never spoke to me—he went in, opened the door, lit the candle, and came out, and asked me if I had seen his old woman—I said that I had not seen her since morning—he went in again, and I heard him sharpening a knife—shortly afterwards I saw his wife come in—when she came by me, she said, "It is most bed-time, is it not?"—I said, "Yes;" and just as she was going in, the prisoner was coming out—they met one another, put their arms round one another, and she took his billy-cock, and said, "Oh, you b—! COURT. Q. Repeat that? A. His wife put one arm round his neck, and took his hat off with the other, and she said, "Oh, you b—! he has done it;" and she said to my wife, "Bet, Bet, look at the blood running down my throat"—she called out, "You b—!" at the moment—I saw the blood running down, and the prisoner said, "Go for a doctor, for I have stabbed my wife, "and then he ran off himself—I ran for a doctor too, and when I got back, the prisoner kissed his wife. Cross-examined. Q. You say she put one arm round his neck and took his hat off with the other? A. Yes—I have never seen her catch him by the handkerchief—I have only known them five weeks—it was her left arm she put round his neck—they did not want much drawing towards one, another, because they were close together at first. COURT. Q. You say his wife put her arm round his neck and took his hat off; how long was that before she said, "You have done it? A. It was done all in a moment—she spoke in the same tone we generally do. LOUISA SOLE . I am a single woman, and lived in the same house with the prisoner—on Sunday morning, 21st May, I was out with the prisoner and his wife—we went to the Bell together, and then to the Eight Tuns—they were with me at both places—I saw the wife leave the prisoner at 11 in the morning, and saw nothing more of them till night. Cross-examined. Q. Have you known them long? A. I have known him from a child, and his wife about twelve months—she was a very violent woman, and very strong and powerful—I have seen them quarrel several times, and have seen her strike him—I never saw her catch him round the neck—she struck him in his garden with her clenched fist in the face—she was in the habit of abusing him, and he likewise—I cannot tell you how recently before this I had seen her strike him, but about three weeks or a month—she could take a drop of drink, but I never saw her the worse for it—I saw her on the night before this happened, between 11 and 12 o'clock—she parted with me at the bottom of Eton-place, and went in search of her husband—I do not know that she stabbed him on one occasion. MR. SLEIGH. Q. You say that yon saw her strike him with her fist; when was that? A. Three weeks or a month before—they have quarrelled, and one has been almost as bad as the other—I have seen him strike her several times. COURT. Q. What age was she? A. Thirty-four—she was some years older than he. MARY ANN ROGERS , I am single, and live at Eton-place—I saw the prisoner come home somewhere about 11 o'clock at night—he walked by us and came back, and said to Mr. Abdy, "Have you seen my wife?"—after that I heard him sharpening a knife—I did not see his wife coming towards him, but I saw him catch hold of her round the neck, as if he was going to kiss her, and she came and said to Mrs. Abdy, " Betty, look at the blood trickling down my dress"—instantly upon his putting his arm round her neck, she called out, "Bet, Bet" and I saw the blood trickling down—she said, "I am a dead woman! I am a dead woman!" many times—with that, he came to the door, and said, "Now I will run for the doctor"—he did so, and came back, and said, "Now, where is a policeman to give me in custody?—when he ran out for a doctor, he said, "I have done it; I have done it at last!" Cross-examined. Q. You did not see her take his hat off? A. No, nor put her arms round his neck—I knew them quarrel once before—I never saw her catch him by the neck, or by the handkerchief. JAMES EDWARDS (Policeman, Y 231). On Tuesday morning, 22d May, about a quarter-past 12, in consequence of information, I went to the prisoner's house—he spoke first—he said that he had murdered his wife, and would go with me to the station—I told him he need not say anything to me unless he liked—he said that jealousy caused him to do it—I asked I him what he had done it with—he said, "A piece of iron"—I asked him what he had done with the iron—he said that he did not know—I went into the house and saw the body of his wife—there was blood on the prisoner's hands and on his slop. Cross-examined. Q. Do you know anything about their quarrels? A. I have seen them having a few words together—I have never seen blows. GEORGE PARSONS (Police-sergeant, Y 18). I produce a knife which Dr. Biddle gave me—I saw the deceased lying on her back dead—I examined the hearthstone in the prisoner's room, and found some scratches, as if a knife had been sharpened—going to the station, he said, "I have killed my wife." Cross-examined. Q. Do you know anything of their quarrels? A. I have seen them quarrel on several occasions, and have seen her catch him by his flannel jacket several times—I have not seen her catch him by the handkerchief—when she caught him by his flannel jacket, it was just by the collar—his neck-handkerchief was in her hand also—he was not nearly strangled—I have seen her catch hold of him two or three times—this was about a month before. COURT. Q. This is a table-knife; did you look to see if there were other table-knives? A. Yes; but they were quite clean, and this was covered with blood—there were four others—the doctor has taken them to his house. ELIZABETH BLACHAM . The deceased was my daughter—she was thirty-four on 9th February, and was married to the prisoner in December, 1864—on Sunday morning, coming from the Magistrate's, the prisoner shook hands with me and said that he hoped we should all forgive him for what he had done. Cross-examined. Q. Did he seem in great excitement? A. Yes—I never saw the deceased strike him—I was three miles away—I do not know that she stabbed him once—they lived three miles from me, and I knew nothing of their affairs. COURT. Q. Was she a woman of a warm temper? A. Not that I know of., HENRY COOPER BIDDLE, M. R. C. S. About midnight, I was called up by the prisoner and Mrs. Abdy—the prisoner asked me to go to his wife, as she was stabbed—I went to her, and found her quite dead on the floor, partly in the room, but with her extremities in the passage—I found six knives there—I made a post-mortem examination, and found a wound above the left clavicle, dividing the sub-clavian artery, and penetrating the left lung——the cavity of the chest was full of blood—the wound was the cause of death—when I went up to the dead body, the prisoner asked me if his wife was dead—I said, "Yes"—he said that it was a very bad job; he had done it, and jealousy was the cause of it. COURT. Q. Where was the knife? A. On the table, with five others—I did not notice any plates on the table—the point of this knife is in precisely the same condition as when I received it—the blow would not have crooked the knife—I observed nothing about the other knives, except that they were very old—it is possible that if it struck a bone that might have turned the point. MR. RIBTON proposed to adduce evidence of previous acts of violence by the deceased similar to that which he contended she was then about to repeat, to show that what the prisoner did might have been in self-defence. MR. JUSTICE BYLES inquired whether there was any authority for such evidence. MR. RIBTON admitted that there was none, as occasion for it had not arisen. MR. JUSTICE BYLES (having consulted MR. BARON BRAMWELL) ruled that the evidence must be distinctly confined to explaining the nature of the act now in question. MR. RIBTON called— WILLIAM GROVES . I have known the prisoner above seven years, and his wife about two and a-half years—I have seen her commit an act of violence on him by catching hold of his neck-handkerchief—he had his handkerchief like this (twice round), and she caught it in this way (single), and twisted it—she was just upon strangling him; he could not speak, only a glutter in his throat—he was making a noise in his throat—I caught his handkerchief, took a knife out of my pocket, and cut the handkerchief, and that released him—on another occasion, I saw her do the same thing with the same effect, and he said to me, "Groves, here; cut my handkerchief, or else she will strangle me, and I cut it—that was the second time. Cross-examined by MR. SLEIGH. Q. How long ago was it that this occurred the first time? A. I cannot say to a month; it might be nine or ten months ago, or a little more—it was at the top of Eton-place, not in the same row of houses, but in the same neighbourhood—it was at night—I did not live in the same house—I was there, because I had been with them both—Elizabeth Messenger was present when it occurred—she is here—I was not at the inquest on the deceased—I knew the prisoner was in custody—I did not go before the Magistrate and tell him—I knew that he was examined, and that there was a Coroner's Inquest—I did not attend either; I was not troubled with that—there was a quarrel between them before she twisted his handkerchief; words, but no blows—I do not know what it was about; they were rowing together—I saw no blows struck, only his wife got hold of his handkerchief—on the second occasion, the same woman was present—that was at night—both times were at slight, and both in the same place—it was not in a room, it was at the top of the Place—there were a good many people about. MR. RIBTON. Q. You say that they were rowing together; I suppose you had heard that often? A. Yes—they were in the habit of quarrelling." BETSY MESSENGER. I live with William Grooves—I knew Mr. and Mrs. Hopkins—some, months since, I saw Mrs. Hopkins catch hold of the the prisoner's handkerchief—he became black in the face, and William Groves released him by cutting his handkerchief with his shut-knife—I have seen him do the same once since—they were having a few words on the second occasion, and she caught hold of his handkerchief in the same way—that is about twelve months ago—he was released by William Groves taking his pocket-knife out and cutting it—the prisoner said, "Groves, she has got hold of my handkerchief; cut it, or I shall be strangled. " Cross-examined. Q. Where did this occur twelve months ago? A. In the passage of this house, at a little after 12 on Saturday evening, just as you enter the door—it was in the dark—there was no gas-light in the passage—I got a candle from the next-door neighbour, and when I brought it Groves had hold of the handkerchief, cutting it in the dark—he did not cut his throat or his fingers, though it was in the dark—it occurred again some months afterwards, I cannot exactly tell you where—it was by night, but I do not remember at what time, or what day it was—I have not the slightest recollection where it occurred—I did not go to the inquest. ANN DELAY . I live at St. John's-yard, Tottenham—I know Charles Aikerman—I was with him at 4, Union-row, about six weeks ago—the prisoner was there, and his wife walked in not many minutes after he came there—she seized him by the handkerchief, and began to pull him about, and she got him on the ground—he said, "Cut the handkerchief, or I am a dead man"—she had the handkerchief twisted round his neck, and he was black in the face—somebody cut the handkerchief but I do not know who—Aikerman tried to pull her away from him, but she was too strong—he showed me the handkerchief in the Wagon and Horses public-house, and said he was very lucky to get off as he did—I have seen that occur four times, and in each of those occurrences he has been rescued from her—whether the handkerchief has been cut on each occasion I cannot say—I have known him take his handkerchief off, if he knew she was in the house. Cross-examined. Q. What is No. 4, Union-row? A. A house where some friends used to meet together and have a glass; Mr. Hopkins, and me, and Mathews—it is not a public-house; but we used to go there very often—I believe it was Hopkins's first time of going there—the first time I saw them quarrel was at the Vulture public-house—the first time I saw her pulling at his handkerchief was at Union-place, about six weeks ago, about midnight or near one in the morning—I do not know who found the knife by which the handkerchief was cut—I cannot give you an idea who cut it—a great many persons went to get him away—Aikerman was present—it occurred next at the Eagle at Edmonton—that was about a fortnight afterwards—it was in the public-house—somebody cut the handkerchief again—it was about half-past 11 at night—I did not know the person who cut the handkerchief—the third occasion was at the Three Tuns, about turning-out time; they turn out about 1 o'clock—the fourth time was at this house in Union-row, at very nearly 1 o'clock in the morning—Charles Aikerman was present—that is the only time that he frequented the house, that I know of—I did not go before the Coroner or the Magistrate. CHARLES AIKERMAN . I knew Mr. and Mrs. Hopkins some time—I saw them at a house in Union-row with Ann Delay—the prisoner came in a few minutes after me—his wife made a rush at him, caught hold of his handkerchief, pulled him off his chair, chucked him on the floor, and began to twist his handkerchief—I saw him turning black in the face, and caught hold of him, and tried to pull him away, but could not—I called to another man to cut his handkerchief, which he did—I do not know who that man was; he was a stranger—I did not see that happen on more than one occasion, but I have seen them fighting. COURT to H. C. BIDDLE. Q. Has the prisoner any marks upon his neck? A. He has marks of some old abscess, which has been perfectly healed for three or four years. John Thoroughgood, a market gardener, Joseph Risley, a dealer, and Joseph Cordery, a dyer, all of Edmonton, gave the prisoner a good character. GUILTY of Manslaughter.— Fifteen Year's Penal Servitude (https://www.oldbaileyonline.org) --00--

218

Dianne Jones on 2nd October 2023

COMMITTAL & JAIL: 1866, 29 May: Middlesex -- Thomas Hopkins was committed to stand trial on a charge of wilful murder; Committing Magistrate EL Busk Esq, Edmonton, and William John Payne Esq, Coroner . Received into custody at Middlesex jail (UK, After-Trial Calendar of Prisoners, 1855-1931 for Thomas Hopkins; 1866). --00--