Charles Potter

174

Iris Dunne on 6th November 2021

Convict Index: aged 22, Single Trade: Baker/Tailor

174

Iris Dunne on 6th November 2021

The Proceedings of the Old Bailey JOHN SCULLY, CHARLES POTTER, Theft > burglary, Theft > burglary, 14th December 1846. 272. JOHN SCULLY was indicted for stealing 2 sauce-ladles, value If.; 7 spoons, 2l. 2s.; 1 watch, 1l.; 1 coat, 2l.; 1 pair of sugar-tongs, 7s.; lib. of tea, 5s.; 20 shillings; 120 sixpences; 100 pence; 50 halfpence; and 200 farthings, the property of Charles Hickman, in his dwelling-house, and after wards burglariously breaking out of the same; and CHARLES POTTER for feloniously inciting Scully to do and commit the said offence. MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution. SAMUEL ORAM . I am a groom. On Thursday night, the 3rd of Dec, I lodged at Mr. Hickman's, the King's Head, High-row, Knightsbridge—i went to bed about eleven o'clock—there had been a concert in the house, which was not over then—I got up about twenty minutes before five o'clock—when I came down I had a candle in my hand—I found the bar-door was broken open—I saw a dark lantern on a little shelf just inside the bar-door, and just outside the bar-door, in the passage, I saw a shawl full of cigars, tied up, and a woman's cloak on the top of it, and on that a jemmy, or crow-bar—I looked inside the bar door and saw the drawers were opened, and some of them on the floor—! just looked round the door into the bar parlour adjoining the bar, and saw the shadow of a man just turning round—I was not quick enough to see his person—he was in the bar parlour—I went and looked at the front door—that was quite safe, and the back door also—I went to the bottom of the stain and gave an alarm to Mr. Hickman—I hallooed to him, and the person in the parlour said, "Hold your tongue, or else I will mark you"—I went up stairs, met Hickman coming from his bed-room door in his night-clothes, and we came down together—by that time the man was gone—he must have gone out at the barparlour window, which I found shoved up, and a work-box put under it, to prevent its coming down—he could then go out and go over the wall—there was no other way he could have got out—I let in the police, I unlocked the front door, and unbolted the back door—when the police came I went to my work. PATRICK M'GARRY I am a corporal in the 6th Enniskillen Guards. On this night I lodged at Mr. Hickman's—I was awoke between four and five o'clock hearing a noise in the back yard—I opened my window, looked out, and heard the voices of some men in the yard—I recognized the police by their lanterns—I saw a man going over the tiles opposite to my room-window—I called out "Police!"—the man had got into another yard—the policemen were in Hickman's yard or the next—I called sufficiently loud for the man to hear me—I said, "There is a man who has got over the tiles, and jumped down to the next lane"—on my saying so, the man, before he jumped over the wall said, You b—, I well shoot you"—the top of the wall has glass bottles on it—I heard the sound of a man dropping, after he climbed the wall—the wall is five or six feet—he was ten or eleven feet from my window—it was too dark for me to distinguish the person—after Scully was taken into custody I attended at the police-court and gave evidence—I heard him cross-examine the witnesses—my attention was called to his voice—to the best of my opinion, it was the same voice that spoke to me that morning, the voice of the man who jumped from the wall—it was a peculiar voice, and when I heard him cross-examine the witnesses it immediately attracted my attention. Cross-examined by MR. DOANE Q. HOW far was he from you when you first saw him? A. Ten or eleven feet—he came down from the tiles into the adjoining yard—he leaped over the wall, which was five or six feet high—the tiles are as high as the wall—he had not got to climb up—from the back parlour window he would climb up a shutter, and over a wall with glass on it, before he got to the tiles—that wail is near the back window—he was already on the tiles when I saw him—he had to come over two walls with glass on them. Q. You heard the voices of the policemen with Mr. Hickman at that time? A. I think he was there—they were not so near to my window as the prisoner—they were in the yard, but I am not certain whether they were in Hick-man's yard or the next—the policemen were in a confused state at the time—they were not near enough to hear what the man said—I think they were twice as far from him as I was—he spoke in rather a suppressed tone of voice, as if it was difficult to get the words out—not a loud voice, but a harsh tone—I do not remember a witness being examined at the police-court who was rather deaf—the Magistrate told me, when the prisoner cross-examined the witnesses, that I had an opportunity of identifying his voice—he slightly cross-examined me—I did not tell the Magistrate directly that I recognized him as the man who was on the tiles—I did not say I recognized his voice before) Hodgson had been examined by the prisoner. MR. CLARKSON. Q. On what floor did you sleep? A. The top room, or two pairs of stairs—I was looking down on the tiles—the policemen and people could not see what 1 saw. CHARLES HICKMAN I am landlord of the King's-Head, High-row, Knights-ridge. On Friday morning, between four and five o'clock, I was alarmed—I at up, came to my room door, and found Oram there—M Garry slept up two airs of stairs, at the top of the house—I went down to the bar, and found the door broken open, the till drawn out, and a drawer in the bar drawn out—one till was broken open—I had left a child's money-box in one of the tills, containing between 5l. and 6l.—I should say nine or ten parts of it were six-pences—above a hundred sixpences—that box was broken open, and the silver all gone—there was also a quantity of farthings, halfpence, and half-CROWNS, and silver table-spoons, sugar-tongs, salt-spoons, mustard-spoons, two sauce-ladles, worth about 2l. altogether, gone from the bar—the table-spoons and sugar-tongs have been found—I missed my great coat, lich was found by the police—the back and front door were secured as I left them over night—the bar parlour window was open—I had a large shawl handkerchief, which was found in the passage, full of cheroots and cigars, tied up in a bundle, about 20l. worth—it was lying in the passage outside the bar, ready to be taken away—the bar parlour window leads to the hack yard—it was secured by a shutter outside, with a bolt fastening down into the cellar-window—that was open when I came down, and anybody could get out at the back of the house into the yard—it was an outer shutter which fastens inside, and which could be opened by opening the window—they could then get into the yard—there is a wall in the yard—there was a shutter standing up against the wall, and I suppose the person must have got up, from the shutter on to the wall—it was the window-shutter which had been taken down and placed against the wall, which had glass bottles on the top of it—there was no appearance of violence used to the outside of the house—I was present when the policemen took Scully into custody at Union-court, Orchard-street, between twelve and one o'clock on Saturday night, or the Sunday morning following—I said, loud enough for him to hear, "If there is any money found on him, the money I lost is new coin, of Victoria, and chiefly sixpences"—I saw the policeman search Scully, and produce from his pocket forty or fifty sixpences, all of Victoria's reign—I also missed about 1lb. of tea—there was a clasp-knife found in a my house. Cross-examined. Q. There was a shutter which would enable anybody to get over the wall? A. Yes—that wall led to the roof of the back premises and wash-house adjoining the tiles that M'Garry has spoken of—I did not ice any blood found there—I saw some in another place—the wall may be about fight or nine feet high—the shutter was about four feet—I do not think a man's head would reach above the wall—it would not reach the wall, if he was on the shutter—the shutter had been moved from the parlour window—I seen it safe before I went to bed, which was a little after two o'clock—I am quite sure I was the last person up. MR. DOANE to PATRICK M'GARRY Q. Was there a concert at the house the night before? A. Yes—I was not present at it—I had been in the room previous to its commencement—I heard some music and singing—I did not see Scully there. MR. CLARKSON Q. It was early in the evening you were in the room? A. Yes, before eight o'clock. JOHN ALLEN I am potman to Mr. Hickman. On Thursday evening, the 3rd of Dec, I saw the prisoners at my master's house from nine until half-past twelve or one o'clock—I knew Potter before, by his frequently lodging at the house, for a month or five weeks before, but not every night—there was a concert in the house—I saw the prisoners come down together, about half-past eleven o'clock, from the concert-room to the tap-room—there was some question between some soldiers and them—I saw Scully last at near one o'clock—I missed him about one, when there was a fight with some-soldiers, and we turned them all out—Scully was missing then—he was in-quired after, while master was turning out the two soldiers, but he could not be found—that was after the row—I had not seen him go out—I turned Potter out, and Watts went out—I went borne, and heard master lock the door after me, after I had fastened all the shutters up. Cross-examined. Q. How many did you turn out after the fight? A. I cannot tell; about fifteen; we turned the whole out. THOMAS HODGSON . I live with my mother, in Middle-row, Knights-bridge. About a month or six weeks before this robbery, the prisoners and a man named Cooper lodged at my mother's house—this was a month or six weeks before this robbery—they had been there three months—it was a month or six weeks before I was before the Magistrate—all three lodged in the same room—there was only one bed—I remember seeing a life-pre-server, a knife, a lantern, and two or three more knives in a table drawer in their room—there was no jemmy there then—the two prisoners were in the room, and I asked Scully what they were for—he said they were for a masquerade ball, this is the same lantern (looking at some articles)—I recognized it as soon as I saw it before the Magistrate, and this is the life-preserver—I have seen a knife like this in the drawer with the other things—I do not know this crowbar—I went down and showed my mother the life-preserver, and told her what they told roe; in consequence of that my mother gave them notice to quit—I heard her do so—it was be cause they were carrying on the game that they did—she did not like them, because they staid out late at night—while they were there I saw a jemmy, but not the one produced. Cross-examined. Q. Have not you seen plenty of lanterns like that in shop windows in London? A. No—I have seen bigger—I cannot swear to this lantern, but it is the same height, shape, and everything—I know the life-preserver by its being bent in the middle—and this is the knife. MR. CLARKSON Q. Do you see the lantern has a double handle? A. Yes, and a small circular bull's-eye—the top part has been blackened over, it has been fresh painted since—when I first saw it it was like tin. MR. DOANE. Q. Have you ever got into difficulty? A. I was in gaol three months, till the 5th of this last Oct.—I was tried in the New Court, I think—I have never been tried in this Court—I have been tried before for heaving stones—I have only been in custody twice. MR. CLARKSON Q. When were you tried in the New Court? A. On the 6th of July last, for robbing my master—I told the prisoners of that when they lodged in our house. MAURICE MULCAHY (police-constable B 2.) On 5th Dec., about half-past eight o'clock in the evening, Potter was given in my custody by Mr. Hickman, at Mr. Hickman's house—I afterwards went to 9, Union-court, Orchard-street, Westminster, with Hickman and the boy Hodgson—we found a female there, and after some conversation with her, went into the front room and found Scully—I asked him if he was the owner of the house—he said "Yes"—while I was questioning him, Hodgson pointed to him, and whispered "That is him"—I took him into custody—I did not know him at the time—I searched him and found forty-five sixpences, all Victoria except one, eleven shillings, a sovereign, and a duplicate—before I found them, Hickman said, in Scully's presence, what description of money he had lost—I desired Scully to show me his hands—I found both hands very much cut in the hollow part, the wrists and fingers—it appeared to have been done very recently—the wrist had a larger cut with a piece of rag round it, and there was blood on the wristband of his shirt—I took him to the station—I had examined the state of the mortar on Mr. Hickman's wall—there was glass on both walls, and on the wall of Hickman's back yard, separating it from the next yard—I found a quantity of blood, and could trace that the thief had got on the tiles from that wall—I mean I traced blood from that wall over three or four yards into the Sun public-house yard—I did not trace it on the tiles—at the bottom of the yard of the Sun public-house I found the clasp knife which has been produced, and two silver tablespoons close to it, with blood on them—I found a coat close to the spoons, and about ten shillings' worth of copper money in the pocket—I found these at ten minutes to five o'clock, on the Friday morning—I have produced the lantern, life-preserver, and crowbar—they were given to me by Mr. Hickman—I searched Potter's lodging, No. 7, Fulham-bridge-yard, Brompton—I was informed that it was his lodging by a person who is not here, but Potter acknowledged that he lodged there—I found there two pair of new trowsers, two new waist coasts, two scarfs, two handkerchiefs, one pair of braces, and two caps, all new, and about three-quarters of a pound of mixed black and green tea—I found tea of a similar appearance scattered about Mr. Hickman's yard—I did not say anything to Scully about his bands being cut; but he said, addressing himself to Mr. Hickman, "I was drunk, and fell down near your house at Knightsbridge"—about a quarter or half an hour after he said he fell down on Constitution-bill—that is half a mile from Mr. Hickman's—he said the money was given to him by his brother Thomas, at Clerkenwell, on the Wednesday before—I said to Potter, at the station, "I have searched your lodging, 7, Fulham-bridge-yard" and I mentioned the articles I found—he said, "What of that, they are my own property"—I told him I found the tea, and mentioned all the articles—he said they were all his. MR. HICKMAN re-examined. The tea I lost was mixed—that found at Potter's lodgings is as much as possible like what I lost—it has that character and appearance—I compared some with it at the Police-court—that strewed about the yard, added to what was found, corresponded with the quantity lost—it is the same description of mixture—I delivered the life-preserver to the officer—I saw it picked up in the bar-parlour, by one of the policemen. Potter. Q. When I was taken, did not I take you to my lodging, and you stopped there while I gave my things in charge of my landlady, and afterwards you returned and searched it again? A. Yes—at No. 7, Bridge-yard. MAURICE MULCAHY re-examined. I forgot that before—I took some new clothes off Potter, and have them here. WILLIAM DEACON I am in the service of Houghton and Lewis, linen-drapers, of Tothill-strect, Westminster. On Saturday, 5th Dec., about eight o'clock in the evening, Scully came to the shop with the woman I have seen in custody—they bought a cloak, two pair of stockings, four flowers, two handkerchiefs, some blond, and some gloves, and paid for them in mixed silver—there were some shillings and some sixpences among it—I cannot recollect whether there were many sixpences—I made out the bill, it was be-tween ten and eleven shillings—the girl paid for it, putting her hand into Scully's pocket and taking the money out—I believe he was sober—he did not put his hand into his own pocket—I did not observe the state of his hands. WILLIAM JOSEPH JOCELYN I am a hatter, and live in Fen church-street. On Friday, the 4th of Dec, between three and four o'clock in the afternoon, Potter came to my shop, and bought a new hat—I do not recollect how he paid for it. LIPMAN EMANUEL I am in the service of Messrs. Moses, of the Minories. On Friday afternoon, the 4th of Dec, between twelve and two o'clock, Potter came to my master's shop, and bought a coat, a pair of trowsers, and two waistcoats—they came to 4l. 4s. 10d.—I believe he paid in gold, but am not positive—these are them—(looking at the articles found at Potter's lodgings.) WILLIAM IN WOOD . On the 3rd of Dec. I was one of the vocalists at the concert at Hickman's house—I saw the prisoners there, and a woman with them—they were singing—one of them called for the "County Gaol song"—I am certain of them—they have frequented the house for the last three months. GEORGE PEARCE . I am surgeon to the Police-force in this district. I was called to examine the hands of Scully—he told me he had had a little drop too much of drink, and fell down on some gravel on Constitution-hill—I found his hands wounded and lacerated, I have no doubt with glass—it must have arisen from being cut with glass, and could not be from the reason he assigned—the wounds were in an upward direction, towards the fingers, in a transverse direction—in the insides the fingers were lacerated as well, in a longitudinal direction, as if they had come in contact with the glass—there was a large transverse wound on the wrist, wounds in the hollow part of the hand, and on the sides of the fingers, but no wounds whatever on the prominent parts of the hand, which would be likely to come in contact with gravel, if he had fallen on it—the left wristband of his shirt was saturated with blood—they were exactly such wounds as could be accounted for by a person endeavouring to get over a wall with glass on the top of it. Cross-examined. Q. Suppose a man put his hand on glass, would not the prominent parts get cut? A. I think not; if the glass protruded from the wall, the hollow of the hand would grasp it, the prominent parts escaped in this instance. GEORGE BROWN (police-constable B 41.) Last Monday week, the 7th of Dec, before the prisoners were brought before the Magistrate, I was at the Rochester-row station, in the passage of the cells—the prisoners were there, and a woman named Susan Watts, and Thomas Scully—in consequence of directions from my superior officer I listened at the cells, and heard a conversation which was began by the prisoner John Scully—I reduced what I had heard to writing on the same afternoon—this is what I wrote—(reading) "About nine o'clock on Monday morning last I was in the passage of the cells, to listen to any conversation that might take place between the prisoner. 1 had not been there many minutes, when the prisoner John Scully called out, Tom, I am sorry I sent Susan to your place: I did not think they would follow her; I wanted her to tell you to say that you had given me 3l. on Wednesday;' when Tom answered, You was a d—d fool to send her there, you might be sure they would follow her about.' John Scully said, Tom, I wish 1 could get to you only to say one word, everything would be as straight as a die.' John Scully then said, 'Tom, they want to bring us in for a job done on the 21st of November;' when Tom answered, 'I shan't know anything about it.' John Scully said, 'What shall you say about it?' when Tom answered, 'That I am innocent; if I don't know anything, I can't say anything.' Charles Potter then said, 'And I am innocent; if I don't know anything, I can't say anything.' John Scully then said that he too was innocent; and if he did not know anything, he could not say anything. They all three then burst out laughing. John Scully then called out, 'Tom, did the policeman find anything at your pl