Robert Smith

343

Maureen Withey on 18th October 2023

Old Bailey Proceedings Online (www.oldbaileyonline.org, version 8.0, 18 October 2023), November 1832, trial of ROBERT SMITH (t18321129-98). ROBERT SMITH, Theft > receiving, 29th November 1832. 199. ROBERT SMITH was indicted for feloniously receiving, on the 25th of March , of a certain evil-disposed person, 8 glazed window-sashes, value 8l., the goods of John Puckeridge , well knowing them to have been stolen ; against the Statute, &c. MR. CLARKSON conducted the prosecution. JOHN PUCKERIDGE . I am a watchmaker , and live in King-street, Snow-hill - I have a house at No. 38, Richard-street, Liverpool-road, Islington . In March last it was to let; on the 23rd of that month two ladies called about it, and in consequence of what they said I sent my son to the station-house - in the evening I went to the house in Richard-street, found the back shutter broken open, and eight sashes gone - I had seen them safe a few days before; on the 25th of March I went with Collins and King to the Hornsey-road, into a house belonging to the prisoner; the officer knew it to be his - I found two of my sashes in the first floor front room, near to the window - the house was nearly finished; it wanted sashes and painting only; we then went into a little back house, about twenty yards distant, and there I found two more sashes. concealed behind some wood - they were also mine, and were a portion of those stolen from my house in Richard-street; we then went to the prisoner's house, in Copenhagen-street - we found him at home -Collins asked for him, and he came out; Collins then asked him if he had any sashes; he said he had nothing of the kind, that he had nothing but some old lumber in the yard - the officer went into the yard, and I followed - he looked into the yard; there was nothing there, but on looking in at the kitchen window he saw some sashes; I looked at them, but did not know them then - we went into the kitchen, and I found them to be mine; they had been chopping at the tenons, as if to cut them off - one ofthem is off, and the stile is taken off; there were some chips about - Mr. Smith came down into the kitchen, and the officer asked him how he came by the sashes - he said he could not tell what to say; the officer then said he had found four more sashes in his houses in the Hornsey-road; he still said he did not know what to say, and he said so several times on his road to the station-house; when he got there, he said to the officer who took it down that he had them of a man named Church, who lived at Bethnal-green; he had not mentioned that before - these are the sashes; I have no doubt they are mine; they were new when I bought the house. Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Did you know the prisoner? A. I knew him by having seen him in the next yard; I then thought him to be the father of the person who lived there - I have since heard he is a person of property; I went before Mr. Laing, the Magistrate, on the 26th of March - I did not state all that I have stated now - I was asked but very little; I did not state that the prisoner said he did not know what to say, but I belive it was stated by one of the officers - I will not swear it; I answered all the questions that were put to me; I cannot take upon me to swear that I did say that the prisoner could not tell what to say, but I think I did; the prisoner was discharged on giving his own security for 100l. - I think he appeared three times; I do not know that the Magistrate then discharged him altogether - orders were given to the officer to try and find the thief; I went before the Grand Jury last Session, as I found the thieves had not been discovered, and the house remained in a delapidated state - I had not been to the prisoner's house after the 25th of March; I went back to his house that day, as I did not know there was any one to tell his wife that he would not come back - I do not remember seeing his daughter there; I do not remember ordering his daughter out of the room, as I had something to say that I did not want any witnesses to- I have no recollection of the kind, but I will not swear that I did not; Mr. George Finch is a broker - he had lived for six months in the next house to mine, I never had any conversation with him; I did not know where he lived afterwards, but he came tampering with me; he did not say he had come in consequence of something I had said to the prisoner's wife - he called on me, and said he understood I particularly wished to see him; I swear I did not say I did not wish to see Mr. Smith, but I was surprised he should lay himself open to become the purchaser of such property; he did not say that the sashes should be replaced until the thief was taken - he came to me in the character of a house-agent, asked if my house was to let, and whether I was inclined to dispose of it - I said I had been very unfortunate with it, and that two tenants had gone away, and robbed me of nearly 50l. - I asked him what character he came in, for I was very doubtful of him, as I had seen him with the prisoner; I said I should have no objection to part with the house for 240l.; I did not say that I had a house to sell for 240l., and that he must understand what I meant, nor that people must expect to make sacrifices in the situation in which the prisoner was - I was too cautious, for I knew Finch's character too well; I did not say, if money was not quite convenient, there was plenty to be had on good security, at 5 per cent.; I told him if he found me a customer for the house, he should have his commission on it; I did not say I did not care who I sold it to, and of course all would end; I have no recollection of saying that I should trouble myself no more about the matter, as I was not bound over to prosecute, but I cannot take upon myself to say - I am seventy years of age, and my memory may not serve me - I have not been a prosecutor before; when Finch called on me the sashes were at Mr. Wormald's. MR. CLARKSON. Q. Finch came to you in the character of a house-agent? A. Yes; he said this was a very serious thing, and I said I wished to know what character he came in - he said he was a house-agent, and he understood I had a house to let; I did not send for him, nor did I send word that I wanted to see Smith; Finch said he understood my house was to let, or to be disposed of - I said I could not let it in that state, but if he could get me a customer for it, he would get his commission. JAMES COLLINS (Police-constable N 160). I went in company with the prosecutor to some premises in the Hornsey-road, which belong to the prisoner; we went into an unfinished house, and found some sashes in the first floor front room - the prosecutor identified them; we then went into another house at the back, which was also unfinished, and there found another pair of sashes behind some boards - the prosecutor identified them; we then proceeded to the prisoner's house in Copenhagen-street, about two miles from Hornsey-road; King, my brother officer, went into the house be fore me - when I went into the house, I asked Smith if he had any sashes - he said, No, he had none at all, he could assure me he had none, and he never kept any thing of the sort there, he kept them at his shed, or at his building; I then asked if he had a shed at the back of his house - he said No, but he had a yard with some old rubbish in it - I went immediately down into the yard - the prosecutor followed me - King was then gone; when I got into the yard I looked through the kitchen window, and saw some sashes standing in the middle of the room - Smith was then on the stairs; we proceeded to the kitchen, and found two sashes there, one of which was broken, and there were some chips on the ground; Puckeridge said he verily believed them to he his; I asked the prisoner how he came by them - he said he had bought them, and given 9d. or 9 1/2d. a foot for them; I told him I had found four others in the Hornsey-road - he said he had bought altogether seven or eight pairs; I took him to the station, and he there said he bought them of a man named John; he had before said he had bought them of a man named Church, and two or three of his men, and he afterwards said he bought them of Church's man, John. Cross-examined by MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Have you told us all that passed? A. Yes, to the best of my recollection; I was near to Mr. Puckeridge the whole time, and heard all that passed - the prisoner first said he had them of Church, and two or three of his men, and then he saidhe had them of Church's man, John; he did say on the second occasion that he hardly knew what to say - this was when I found the two sashes in the kitchen; I do not know what he meant by it - I believe he is in a large way of business; I was before the Magistrate - there was but little stated there; I did not hear the prosecutor state what passed with the prisoner - I knew I could find the prisoner when I wanted him; the sashes were left at Mr. Wormald's - I told the prosecutor I would leave them there, and he made no answer. MR. CLARKSON. Q. Had you seen the prisoner from the time he was discharged till the bill was found against him? A. Yes, twenty times, and I once asked him if he had found the man he had given a description of -I took two persons to him, and another person was pointed out to him, but he could not identify either of them; one of Church's men was taken to him, and Church was taken - he said that was not the person; he bought them of his man, John - John has not been taken; I cannot find him: I have been in the prisoner's house but once since he was taken. THOMAS HOBBS KING (Police-constable N 248). I went with Collins, and the prosecutor to the Hornsey-road, and then to the prisoner's house; I saw the prisoner, and told him I had an unpleasant piece of business to state to him, and he asked me into the parlour - I then told him Mr. Puckeridge had lost a number of sashes from a house in Richard-street, and from information I had been to some houses belonging to him, in Hornsey-road, where I had found four sashes, and I asked how he became possessed of them - he said he bought them of a man named Church; I asked where he lived - he gave me a pen and ink, and a piece of paper, and I put down the address at Bethnal-green; in the mean time, Collins and the prosecutor came in; I had to be on duty at one o'clock, and left them: I went with Collins the same afternoon to Chuch, and saw him. HENRY WORMALD . I live in Mount-row, Liverpool-road; I am a painter and glazier. I have had the care of these sashes; I have fitted them to the prosecutor's house in Richard-street, and they belong to it, to the best of my judgment. Cross-examined. Q. I suppose every house of the same size would require the same sized sashes? A. Yes, but here is one half-sash, I can swear to - it had been in the front parlour; I had seen it while it was in, and remarked it - I should think 9 1/2d. a foot, a fair price for them. Prisoner's Defence. I gave a fair price for them, and bought them of Church's man; he told me he bought them from Church - I bought them on the 3rd of March, and had them till the 20th; I then sent them in the middle of the day up to the house at Hornsey. MR. MALLETT. I am chief clerk to the Magistrate at Hatton-garden. I took the examinations in this case on the 26th of March; I have no recollection of any statement being made, that the prisoner had given contrary accounts how he became possessed of them, or that he at first said he did not know what to say - the prisoner was discharged on his own recognizances to appear on the Saturday, which he did. MR. CLARKSON. Q. May Collins have stated that the prisoner said he did not know what to say, and you not to take it down? A. He might, it was a very hasty examination, as the thief was not in custody. GEORGE FINCH . I am an appraiser, and live in George-place, Holloway. I know the prisoner; I called on Mr. Puckeridge, and had some conversation with him, in the course of which he said he did not particularly wish to see Mr. Smith, but he was surprised he should lay himself open to purchase such property - I told him the sashes should be replaced till the thief was taken; he said he had a house to sell for 240l., and I must understand what he meant - he said people must expect to make sacrifices in such cases as Mr. Smith's, and if money was not quite convenient, there were plenty to be had on good security at 5 per cent. - he said he did not care who he sold the house to, and of course all would end; he said he should have no house, nor trouble himself more about the matter, as he was not bound over to prosecute - I had before this been to Mr. Harmer, and told him what Mrs. Smith had said to me; he said it was a very delicate point, but there would be no impropriety in my going to Mr. Puckeridge, and telling him the sashes should be replaced till the thief was brought forward - I had only seen Mr. Puckeridge at the office when the case was brought forward; I was agent for Mr. Smith on several occasions: I know there was such a man as Church, and I had heard that Mr. Smith had dealt with him for sashes, and other things - I know Church had a servant named John or Jack; I have been to inquire for him, but cannot find him - we have offered a reward for any information about him; I went to inquire for Church about a fortnight or three weeks back - his house was shut, and I could get no account of him. MR. CLARKSON. Q. Had you ever seen Jack? A. I saw him once with Church - I am in the service of Mr. Smith occasionally; he wished me to accompany him to the office - I had been once to a Police-office before, on a disputed levy; that was on Mr. Smith's account - I am agent for other persons, and for Mr. Williams, of Hatton-garden office - I swear most positively before God that I did not tell the prosecutor that the windows should be put in if he would forego the prosecution - I had retained Mr. Harmer as Mr. Smith's solicitor, at his request - then I went, by Mr. Harmer's advice, to the prosecutor, and proposed to replace the sashes - I knew they were at that time in possession of the officer; Mrs. Smith first requested me to go to Mr. Puckeridge, but I saw Mr. Smith about it before I went - I saw Church three or four weeks ago on some premises belonging to Mr. Smith, in George-yard, Islington; Mr. Smith said he must give him a job, that he might know where he was, and set him to solder a piece of iron - I lived next door to the house from which these sashes were taken, shortly before they were lost - I have to collect the rents of six houses in Pierpoint-rents for Mr. Sage, of Pimlico, and I have distrained on them twenty or thirty times - I live now in one of Mr. Smith's houses; I saw Jack in Liverpool-road with Church, and another man, about eight months ago - I have never seen him since; Church is a plumber, painter, and glazier. MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Had you seen Church, Smith, and Jack together? A. Yes, and I heard Jack called by that name - I have not been retained by Smith as aregular servant, but only to do such jobs as he desired me; I have been eight years an appraiser and broker - when Puckeridge said he had been at such considerable loss, I said I would undertake to replace the sashes as they were before, upon condition that if the thief was found, he should pay Mr. Smith any expence he had been at. JOHN STONE. I am a sawyer, and live in Sermon-lane, Liverpool-road. I know Church; he had two men in his employ who used to come to my house with him; one of the men was called Jack - I have not seen him since the beginning of March; he called at my house about that time, and brought two old sashes - he asked if Mr. Smith was at my house; I said No; he left the sashes about ten minutes, and then fetched them away. MR. CLARKSON. Q. What are you besides a sawyer? A. I keep a little beer shop, just at the back of the prosecutor's premises - Mr. Smith is in the habit of paying his men at my house very often; Smith knew Jack, and they have drank at my house frequently, but Church and his man were more frequently there than Smith was - I never saw Smith and Jack there without Church; I had no suspicion when these sashes were brought to my shop- I had worked for Mr. Smith - on the morning after the sashes were brought to my house a person named Davis told me they were improperly come by, and he believed he could point out the house from which they came - I have never seen Jack since the time he brought the sashes - Church and Smith came to my premises about a month ago; they had some beer, and talked together; I did not give any information when Davis told me what he did - I did not know Mr. Puckeridge; Davis showed me the place, but I did not go to the Police-station. MR. ADOLPHUS. Q. Who is Davis? A. A shoemaker - he did not say he had seen them stolen, or knew who stole them, but he said he saw a man come into my house with them, and he thought something was wrong; I have seen Smith and Church since that time in company, but I have not seen Jack with them; I have never looked after Jack - I have seen Smith and Church together till within about a month; I have not looked for Church since. COURT. Q. Did you say to Davis, "I can tell you who was the man that stole them, it was Jack?" A. No - I had no idea that they were stolen. MARY HAMBROOK . I am the prisoner's daughter. I recollect seeing the prosecutor about the 25th of March; he came to my father's house - my mother was there; he wished me to leave the room, as he wished to speak to my mother alone; I left the room, and he staid about a quarter of an hour. HENRY ST. JOHN LANGDON . I am a builder. I have known the prisoner thirty years - he has had an honest character; I should think 9d. or 9 1/2d. a foot a good price for these sashes; as they are now, we give 1s. a foot for glazing them. MR. CLARKSON. Q. Are you in the habit of buying sashes? A. Yes; I knew Church kept a new beer-shop next door to me, in the Hornsey-road, two years ago. COURT. Q. Are not these sashes worth a great deal more than 9d. a foot when fixed? A. Yes. GUILTY . Aged 51. - Transported for Seven Years . --------------------------------------------------------------------- HO 17/74/33 Prisoner name: Robert Smith [Samuel Smith]. Prisoner age: 51. Prisoner occupation: Builder. Court and date of trial: Old Bailey November Sessions 1832. Crime: Receiving 8 window sashes property of John Pickeridge. Initial sentence: 7 years transportation. Gaoler's report: Not known before. Annotated (Outcome): Send abroad. Petitioner(s): The convict and six people; John Baty; E Hills, Surgeon; George R Corner; Whitbread and co; 83 people; convict's wife and ten people; M Arabin supporting the petition. Grounds for clemency (Petition Details): He purchased the sashes in good faith, not knowing them to be stolen. Other papers: Character reference from Christopher Gabriel and son; depositions from: James Meredith, Mary Hambrook, James Hambrook, John Lewis, Maria Gobby, George Robinson, George Finch, William W Date: 1832. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Tasmanian Records. Description, https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON18-1-11$init=CON18-1-11P138 Robert Smith, age 52, Labourer & builder, Native place, Islington. Lame of the leg. See record for full details. Muster Roll. https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON13-1-6$init=CON13-1-6P46 Robert Smith, Convicted at Middlesex Gaol Delivery, 29 Nov 1832, 7 years. Conduct Record https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON31-1-40$init=CON31-1-40P07JPG No 1661. Robert Smith. See record for details. Free Cert No 797/1839.