Thomas Vallance

Level 347

Maureen Withey on 9th May 2020

Old Bailey Proceedings Online (www.oldbaileyonline.org, version 8.0, 09 May 2020), October 1786, trial of THOMAS VALLENCE DANIEL COLLINS (t17861025-17). THOMAS VALLENCE, DANIEL COLLINS, Violent Theft > highway robbery, 25th October 1786. 777. THOMAS VALLENCE and DANIEL COLLINS were indicted for feloniously assaulting Thomas Schooley on the King's highway, on the 8th day of September last, and putting him in corporal fear and danger of his life, and feloniously taking from his person, and against his will, fourteen shillings in monies numbered, his property . THOMAS SCHOOLEY sworn. I am a labouring man ; I work at ballast work, and coal work ; I live with my master, Mr. Pantin, near St. George's church in the borough; he is in court; on the 8th of last September, between two and three in the morning, I was robbed in Lower Shadwell , underneath Mr. Dunn's house, a painter; I was going to work at ballasting; I got dry, and I went into the Three Cups to have a pint of beer; I rapped at the door, and went in and sat alone; there were three fellows together, the prisoners were two them, and I had very heavy words with them; I had about twenty shillings in my pocket; I pulled out the silver to look for sixpence; I gave the landlady a shilling to change and went away; and when I had gone about three yards from the house, the prisoners, and another came after me, and knocked me down; they did not speak to me first; they laid hold of me by the mouth, and by the hair of the head, and knocked my head against the curb-stone, till the blood flew out of my ears and nose; a gentleman cried out thieves several times, but nobody came to my assistance; they robbed me of fourteen shillings only; the change I had in my waistcoat pocket they did not take that, they had not time; after they had robbed me, they ran away directly, and I cried out watch; I got up as quick as I could, though I was very weakly with the loss of so much blood; I overtook the young fellow in the striped jacket; then one of the ballast heavers came to my assistance, and the watchman laid hold of them; the watchman let one of them go, for he told me, that the thief told him he would be upon honor with him, for he would walk before him, but I never saw that thief since. How far was that man you took from you? - About two or three hundred yards. Was he ever out of your sight? - Yes, he was. Are you sure that the man you took, was one of the men that robbed you? - Yes, I took particular notice of him; I was attacked within one hundred yards of the Three Cups. What sort of a morning was it? - It was pretty lightish, a very fine morning; the man came behind me. As you was knocked down before you was robbed, had any opportunity of looking at them? - Yes, when I was knocked down, I took particular notice of them by their jackets, and by the hairy caps they wore, and by their complection. What countrymen are they? - I cannot say. Had you ever seen them before? - Not to my knowledge. Which is the man you took? - The prisoner Vallence. You say you are sure that Vallence was one of the three that robbed you? - Yes; the other prisoner came to the watch house afterwards, but nobody would stop him, and he was taken the next day; the watchman came to me again, after they were fully committed, and said a gentlewoman wanted to speak to me, and he took me to a strange house, and they wanted me to smother the robbery; one of the women asked me if I was going to hang her nephew; I said I never hung any body, nor never should, for if the law of the nation hung them, it was not me; then I was applied to by a girl, who said a gentlewoman wanted me; she gave me some rum, and told me not to hang her son, but she should not mind if he was transported. Mr. Keys, Prisoner's Counsel. You are a labouring man? - Yes. This was between two and three in the morning? - Yes. Where had you been all that night? - At Paul's-wharf at work, and from thence to Newgate-market. When did you leave off work? - About half past one, I carry the loads all night. Was not it very dark that night? - No, it was not. You are sure it was not dark? - Yes. Did not the watchman tell you, you was drunk that night? - No, Sir, not that I know; he abused me very much; the watchman shewed me the Three Cups; I knew the watchman; the watchman has been turned out of the parish on that very account, and his other misdemeanors, the day following, and two days after he was turned out of the parish in the vestry. You are sure Vallence was one of them? - Yes, Sir, very sure. Where did you get this money? - Worked for it, Sir. Court. I understand you, that you was going to ballast heaving? - Yes, I was. MARGARET KILBY sworn. I keep the Three Cups; I remember the prosecutor being at my house that night; the watchman came and knocked at my door at twelve at night, and the maid opened the door, and he said, let this man have a pint of beer, or something to that purpose; the girl gave him a pint of beer. Did the prosecutor go in? - Yes. Who was in the house at that time? - I set up to wait on the labourers; there was nobody in the room besides the prosecutor when he first came in. Did any body come in while he was there? - There came three or four young men. How were they dressed? - I really did not take notice, I was not in the room when they came in; they were dressed in jackets. How long did the prosecutor stay? - He stopped and had two pints of beer. Was he sober, or in liquor? - He was a little in liquor. Did he go away first? - He went away before them. How long did they remain in the house after he went? - About three or four minutes. Did they go out all together; - Three went out, and one staid in the house. Did you hear any alarm after this? - No, I heard the watchman rattling his rattle, but I did not open the door to see what it was. Do you know any of the people that was at your house? - Yes, I recollect the two prisoners faces to be in my house that night; but I do not say that these two young men robbed the man. Who was the third man? - I do not know, I never saw any of them before; but I know these two young lads to be two of the men; I never saw them before, but when they came before the justice in the morning I knew them. Mr. Keys. This was at twelve at night you say? - Yes. The prosecutor was in liquor? - Ye s, he was a little in liquor. Are you quite sure as to these two young men? - Yes, I am sure they were in my house that night. GEORGE FORRESTER sworn. I belong to the public office, Shadwell; I know no further, than that one Hanks, who is not in custody, I had information of; I went to look for him, but not finding him, I took the prisoner Collins, in Shadwell, about eleven the next day; I asked him where he slept last night, and he said in Blue-coat-fields; I know no more; I brought him down to Shadwell, and he was detained on suspicion. Court to Schooley. I understood you, that you had taken Vallence, and that the other prisoner had been taken by the watchman the same night? - No, the watchman took none of them; I took him to the dock; he was within five or six yards. Look at Collins, do you know any thing of him? - Yes, my Lord, exceedingly well; he was taken while I was ill; I can swear positively to him. When did you see Schooley? - Not till this prisoner was committed for further examination. JOHN ORANGE sworn. Mr. Forrester brought one of the prisoners up to me, and I searched him, and in two papers in Collin's jacket pocket, I found six shillings wrapped up in two pieces of whitish-brown paper; there were four shillings in one paper, and two shillings in the other; I saw the prosecutor all over blood, locked up in the watch-house. PRISONER VALLENCE'S DEFENCE. I leave it to my counsel. WILLIAM SUTTON sworn. I was a watchman in Shadwell-dock that night, the 8th of September, I have known the prosecutor these two years; I believe I came round about ten, and it began to rain; after the half hour I came and saw the prosecutor in my box; says I, what is this here, my officers will not allow me to keep any body in my box, you must move out of this; he was drunk, I could hardly keep him up; at eleven I found him drunk a second time, laying in the street, I then told him he should not be there; says he, I am waiting for the captain; says I, where do you lodge? says he, in the city; I went round about, as soon as I came round the half hour, there he was laying in the same place again; I thought as it was raining he would catch his death of cold; he asked me if I knew of any lodging; I told him no, except one public house, as I came round where I heard people up, I went there, and told them there was a man very much in liquor, and would catch his death of cold; I did not stay there three minutes, there I left him in an empty box by himself. What time was this? - I suppose pretty near twelve when I put him in there, then he was very much intoxicated with liquor, he could hardly stand upon his legs, I saw him afterwards, I cannot tell what time it was, may be it might be an hour and a half afterwards, when he came out of this public house there was a good many people backwards and forwards, I did not stop to hear what they were, there was a racket, as there most commonly are watermen and captains of ships and that, and so I went down, and the prosecutor was there, and two men had hold of him, whether they were lifting him up or what I cannot say; the prisoners at at the bar were coming one way; says, I do you know who robbed you? yes, says he; says I, did this man rob you? yes, says he; and I suppose if I had pointed out any other he would have said the same. Where was Vallence when you came up? - He and another man was walking towards us. Court. How came you to ask him whether that man had robbed him? - I asked him whether he know the persons that robbed him, Vallence was one of the men that he said robbed him; I do not know who the other man was. Mr. Keys. Who took Vallence into custody that night? - I did. You took him to the watch-house I think? - I did. When you first came up was Vallence standing there? - No, he was coming towards the crowd; I have known the prosecutor for about two years. What is his character in that neighbourhood? - His character is like a great many labouring men, he makes ill use of his money, and gets drunk like a great many more foolish people. Is he supposed to carry much money in his pocket? - I believe he seldom has much money, I believe he is like me. Court. Are you any relation to Vallence? - No. Do you know his aunt? - No, I know his mother. Did not you carry this Schooley to his mother or aunt? - No, I carried her to the public house; I never took him to her house. What house did you take him to? - To Mr. Swinney's, the Bull's Head, in New Gravel-lane. Who desired you to take him to that house? - I met him and took him up there with his mother to make it up. How came you to know that? - He told me he was willing to make it up; I told Schooley I believe the mother and you will make it up; so I carried him to the Dock public house, and the mother was not at home, I fancy there was some relation there, they had some discourse but what it was I do not know; I was not with him the next time; I have known his mother going on twenty years. How has the lad got his living? - I have known him to be a good scholar, and he is lately come home from Greenland. How comes it you are not a watchman for the parish? - I do not know, I am a watchman in another parish, now in St. George's, I was turned out about this affair. I suspect because you wanted to get this man to make up this business. - No, it was because I did not come down time enough when this man was robbed, I could not be at both ends of the street at once. FRANCIS BECH sworn. I have known Vallence in the course of fourteen years since he was a baby; he was brought up to sea, and that vessel was car away, and the captain is not here at present; he has gone to Greenland backwards and forwards, his mother keeps him; Captain Scott is not in town or he would give him an undeniable character, he made his last voyage with him. The prisoner called four more witnesses who all gave him a very good character. PRISONER COLLINS'S DEFENCE. I hope I shall have my money returned to me. Court. Can you satisfy the Jury where you was that night? - I know no more about it than I met this young fellow, we went into the Three Cups and had a pot of beer, the prosecutor was laying asleep in the box, we sat in another box, the watchman came in, who was an acquaintance of this young fellow's; this young fellow called for half a pint of rasberry, and drank about half a glass of it, and went away for fear of being locked out; then I heard he was taken up, I went to the watch-house to see what was the matter, and the prosecutor was there, and he said I believe he is one of the robbers, take hold of him; but nobody would; then I went away, I was going to work; and after I came from work, about ten, Mr. Forrester came and took me away: I have no friends in England. Court. Is there any person belonging to the watch-house? - No. Court to Sutton. Was you there when Collins came to see Vallence? - No, I was not. Court to Schooley. Where had you been the night before you had got down to Shadwell? - At Paul's Wharf carrying apples, pears, and all kind of garden stuff, as I always do when I am not in place; I suppose I went away from Paul's Wharf about half past twelve, and got down to Shadwell about half past one; I never was laid down at the Dock, nor he never bid me go away; he said you are a little in liquor; says I, I am fatigued and a little in liquor too, says I. BOTH GUILTY , Death . Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron EYRE . -------------------------------------------------- National Archives. HO 47/9/21 1789 July 21 Letter from James Adair enclosing a list of capital respites, in Newgate on 24 June, to whom no pardon has yet been granted, and on which his recommendations are noted against each name. Adair mentions that he is at a loss as to what to suggest for James Carse, convicted of murder, but periodically insane. List of capital convicts in Newgate, 24 June 1789. October Sessions, 1786 3. Thomas Vallance and Daniel Collins, for a highway robbery on Thomas Seboolery[?]. Recommendation: transportation for life.