Henry Waters

Level 135

C H on 2nd March 2024

Old Bailey Online HENRY WATERS. JAMES JOHNSON. Theft; pocketpicking. 19th September 1836 Text type Trial account Defendants HENRY WATERS, JAMES JOHNSON Offences Theft > Pocketpicking Session Date 19th September 1836 Reference Number t18360919-2208 Verdicts Guilty, Guilty Punishments Transportation 2208. HENRY WATERS and JAMES JOHNSON were indicted for stealing, on the 7th of September, 1 canvass bag, value 1d.; 20 sovereigns, and 4 half-sovereigns, the goods and monies of David Robert Burry, from his person. DAVID ROBERT BURRY . I am a tallow-agent, and live in Bermondsey-street. On the 7th of September I was at the St. Helena tavern, Deptford Lower-road, and had taken rather too much liquor—I was going to Rotherhithe, and fell in with two soldiers—one of them passed on, the other came up and asked me where I was going—I asked him to tell me where I was, and to direct me to Deptford Lower-road—he said he would put me all right if I would stand something to drink—I said I had no money—I gave him a shilling, and said that was all I had got—he said, "You have plenty of money in this pocket," tapping his hand to my trowsers pocket, and in an instant I found I had lost a canvass bag, containing 20 sovereigns and 4 half-sovereigns—I cannot say whether either of the prisoners were the men—Dennis Coleman came up to me immediately afterwards—he asked if I had not been robbed, and offered to assist me—I went to the barracks with him—I had seen my money safe at the St. Helena—he struck my pocket and made it rattle just before he took it out of my pocket. DENNIS COLEMAN . I am a milkman, and live in Lower-road, Deptford. On Wednesday evening, the 7th of September, I saw the prisoners accost the prosecutor—I knew them before—I have served the barracks with milk a long time, and knew them well—I was not quite a hundred yards off at the time—it was about half-past seven o'clock—I had been speaking to a neighbour at his door before when they passed by, and Johnson stopped and spoke to me—I asked him where Waters was gone—he said he was gone to make it all right—I don't know what he meant—he left me, and went up to the prosecutor—Waters had met the prosecutor after he passed me, and went up to him, about one hundred yards from where I stood—I heard Johnson ask Mr. Burry for some money—he said he had not got any—Johnson said, "I know you have plenty," and tapped his pocket with his left hand—Waters was leaning against the rails, about ten yards off at that time, and within hearing—Johnson remained talking to Mr. Burry about a quarter of an hour—waters did not go farther than ten yards all that time—I saw Johnson doing something to his pocket, and heard him say he had plenty of money—I heard Burry afterwards say to Johnson, "Give me my money back again, you have got it"—Johnson said, "You said just now you had not got any money; but if you have lost any thing, come to-morrow morning to the Tower, you will find me out there; I shall be benighted and locked out," and the prisoners both went away together—I went up to the prosecutor, and asked if he had been robbed—I went with him to the barracks—the prisoners were not there—I went to the drill serjeant and told him their names—they told me if I met them to give them into custody—I am quite certain the prisoners are the two men who passed me and went up to the prosecutor—I don't think Waters was ever further off than ten yards—he spoke to the prosecutor before Johnson went up to him. EDWARD LONSDALE . I am landlord of the Ship and Sailor, Effingham-place, Deptford. On Wednesday evening, the 7th of September, the prisoners came to my house, about a quarter past eight—Johnson said, "Landlord, did not you trust me a pot of beer this afternoon?"—I said, "I did"—he said, "Will you trust me another?"—I said, "No, I can't trust any more"—he said, "Then I won't pay you what I owe you"—I said, "I can't help that"—one of his comrades said, "Why don't you pay the man for his beer?"—he then gave me a sixpence, and I gave him change—they then asked me for a private room—I said, "There is nothing but the club-room up stairs"—they said that would do—I said, "What do you want of a private room" all your comrades are here"—they said they had a little business to settle—I lighted them up stairs, and took them a quartern of rum—I suspected something was not right—I called a young man, and put him to look through a broken square of glass into the room, to notice what they were doing—he came down to me, and said something—when Johnson came down he showed me a sovereign, and asked if I was in want of a sovereign—I said, "No"—he said, "If you are, I will lend you one, or four, or five more"—I said, "All I have to say to you is, take care of your money"—he showed me a yellow canvass bag with some sovereigns in it—he knocked it against the counter and said, "I have got plenty more landlord"—I said, "Very good, take care of them"—Waters then came down, and he showed me about ten sovereigns, open in his hand—each of them changed half-a-sovereign with me. RICHARD HARBERT . I am a wood-cutter, and live in Flood-street, Deptford. On Saturday evening, the 7th of September, I was in the tap-room of the Ship and Sailor—Lonsdale told me to look into the club-room window, through a broken square, and I saw a bag and some gold on the table—the prisoners were in the room—when I came down I told the landlord what I had seen. BENJAMIN LOVELL (police-serjeant R 15.) On Wednesday night, the 7th of September, I received information from the prosecutor of his loss, and from Coleman—I went to the barracks about ten o'clock—the prisoners were not there—soon afterwards I met them in Old King-street, going towards the barracks—I followed them into the barracks—the serjeant of the guards ordered a file of men to put them into the guard-room—I asked them if they knew Coleman the milkman—they said, "Yes"—I asked if they had seen him that evening—they said, "No"—I asked if they had been down where he lived—they said, "No"—I asked if they had been with a gentleman who was in liquor—they said, "No"—I told them the charge—they said they knew nothing about it, and had no money about them—I was going to search Waters—he put his hand up to take his cap off, and some halfpence fell out—he was doing something to his cap—I seized his wrist, and in his hand found six sovereigns, half-a-crown, and three shillings—Johnson refused to be searched, and was very violent—he took a shilling, a sixpence, and a few halfpence from his pocket, and there down on the ground—he was searched, but nothing was found on him—he was very violent, and threw himself about. Water's Defence. I never saw the prosecutor. I sold a reversionary interest to Mr. Hockley, of Bell-yard, Doctors Commons, about eight months ago, and received 62l. for it, and this was part of the money. Johnson's Defence. I never saw the gentleman that evening—the money I had Waters lent me, which was a sovereign and a half—and he has lent me money before, and I have repaid him. ALLAN MCCASTREA . I am serjeant of the 1st battalion of Scotch Furileer Guards. I have known Waters ever since he joined the regiment, which is about two years—I never knew any thing against him for dishonesty—his character as a soldier was rather irregular—that was in consequence of his having large quantities of money from different relations—he has had money to a large amount sent to him two or three times—his friends had lodged money for his discharge, and to buy him clothes, and he drew the money from the Bank, and absented himself with another young man for several days—at one time he had between forty and fifty sovereigns—I never knew any thing against Johnson for dishonesty—he was irregular as a soldier, but not dishonest. JURY Q. How recently was Waters in possession of any number of sovereigns? A. I cannot exactly state I have not been at the same barracks for a fortnight. DAVID ROBERT BURRY re-examined. I live in Bermondsey-street. I had been to the Blue Anchor-tavern, Blue Anchor-lane, to spend the day with some friends—that is about two miles from Bermondsey-street—I am not aware that any person knew I was in possession of twenty sovereign that day—I had no necessity of showing it—I received it from a person named Renton, a soap-maker. BENJAMIN LOVELL re-examined. On the Thursday Waters told me it was a hard case he could not spend his own money, and that his sister had sent him 8l. from Brighton—at the next examination the sister was in attendance, but the Magistrate said it was not necessary to take her evidence as they must bind her over to appear against her own brother, as she denied having ever seen him, or sent him any thing—the prisoner was present at the time—the canvass bag has not been found. Waters. I had lent my sister 6l., and she gave me 8l. for it. DENNIS COLEMAN re-examined. I saw Johnson put his hand to the prosecutor's pocket, and say, "You have plenty of money"—I was about one hundred yards off—I could see him very well—it was hardly dusk—it is a straight road from where I stood to where the prisoners stood—they spoke loud sometimes—I supposed, if any thing was wrong, the prosecutor would have made an alarm—he shook hands with Johnson—he was drunk at the time. RICHARD HERBERT re-examined. Q. You have not stated all you said before the Magistrate? A. I heard Johnson and Waters say, "Let us have our right"—they were standing up in the room, with the table between them—they appeared on good terms, not quarrelling—I saw no more—money was thrown on the table, but I could not swear by which of them it was—this is my mark to my deposition (looking at it)—it was read over to me—what I have stated to-day is correct (read)—"Richard Herbert sworn. On Sunday evening last I was in the tap-room of the Ship and Sailor till about nine o'clock—Mr. Lonsdale called me out, and asked me to look in at the club-room window, and see what the soldiers were about—he held me up—I saw the prisoners sitting opposite each other, and they appeared quarrelling—one said to the other, "Let us have right"—one took a sovereign and threw on the table, which the other took up—I saw a yellow bag in the hands of one of them, containing sovereigns, but I cannot say how many"—what I have said to-day is correct—I do not know how the rest came in my deposition. DAVID ROBERT BURRY re-examined. I do not recollect shaking hands with either of the men—the man, when I said I was robbed, said, "Robbed! you said just now you had not any money—if you want me, come to the Tower;" and he ran off instantly—I cannot say how far the other soldier was from me—only one asked me for money, and the same man took my money, I am positive—the other was a very few yards off, and could hear and see what passed—I have no recollection of either of the prisoners—it was near eight o'clock—I should think any body could see hear what passed at fifty or a hundred yards' distance—the soldiers were in light dresses—I spoke very loud when I said he had robbed me—I believe there are lamps in the road—Coleman came up to me immediately after the men left me—I cannot tell where he came from. WATERS— GUILTY .—Aged 21. JOHNSON— GUILTY .—Aged 22. Transported for Seven Years. Before Mr. Justice Bosanquet.