Amelia Page

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Tony Beale on 12th September 2021

William Kirk in the Australia, Marriage Index, 1788-1950 Name: William Kirk Spouse Name: Amelia Page Marriage Date: 1840 Marriage Place: New South Wales Registration Place: Hoxham, Newcastle, New South Wales Registration Year: 1840 Volume Number: V B Granted on 9/12/1840

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Tony Beale on 12th September 2021

Old Bailey Online 2/3/1840 1013. AMELIA PAGE and WILLIAM SEYMOUR were indicted for stealing, on the 23rd of February, 1 watch, value 4l.; 1 watch-key, value 2d.; 1 purse, value 10d.; 15 sovereigns, and 8 shillings; the property of John Morrison, from his person. JOHN MORRISON . I am a currier, and live in Bell's-rents, John-street, Southwark. On the 23rd of February I was coming through the Strand—we met the prisoner Page, and some more young women—we gave them something to drink, then we went to an eating-house, then went and had some more drink—after that, Page took me to Morte's-place, over Waterloo-bridge—when I was going over the bridge, I looked at my watch, and it was then safe—when I got to her house I separated my purse from my copper—my purse contained 15 sovereigns and eight shillings—I then went up stairs with her—I remained half-an-hour, or three quarters—I pulled off my clothes and went to bed, but as I did not find Page was coming, I jumped up—I took up my trowsers—I heard the coppers jingling, and I thought all as right—I then missed my watch, my purse, and money—Seymour then came in and collared me—he said, I did not take it there, and he turned me out of the house—I called the police—we went to the station-house, then went back to the house, and an old woman attacked me, and my nose bled—the officer took her, and she had three months' imprisonment—we could not get in, and the house was not searched. Cross-examined by MR. ESPINASSE. Q. You lived in Bell's-rents, John-street street, did you? A. Yes, but when I signed the charge, I stated where I was going to work, at Mr. Flanagan's, in Bermondsey-street—I am married—I did not say when I was asked my residence that I lived at No. 14, Park-lane, near Hyde park—I was asked where the other gentleman lived who was with me, and I said he was lodging in Park-street—I was living in Bell's-rents then, but I did not know the name of it then—I knew it was a street out of Bermondsey-street—I have lived there from Thursday, the 20th of February, and the charge was made on the Sunday following—Bermondsey-street was the only place of residence I gave then, but I stated before the Magistrate No. 2, Bell's-rents, John-street. Q. Did you not say that you lived at Baalzephon-street? A. I did not—it might have been spelt that way—I did not say so—I swear I said Bell'snrents, John-street—I had before been living at Bolton, in Lincolnshire—I had only been in London three days—I told the sergeant I could not tell the number in Bermondsey-street—I thought it was 38—I put down 3 at first in putting down the charge, and then I put down 8—I afterwards recollected, and put down 38—when I was at Bolton I was a sergeant of the police—I am not a master currier—I am an Irishman, and have 30l. a year from a tan-yard at Cork—I did not represent myself as a man of independent property—I had fifteen sovereigns and eight shillings about me—I had had sixteen sovereigns, and I spent the rest on this woman and the other man who was with me—I had dined at home that day about four o'clock—I had not had any thing to drink before four o'clock—I drank after dinner—I am sorry I had so much to drink—it is nearly impossible to tell what I drank—I began with drinking ale about half-past five o'clock—I continued drinking ale till about eight o'clock—I drank between three and four pots, between me and two other men—we had three or four quarterns of gin after we met Page—we had one quartern before—we went to the Strand between nine and ten o'clock at night—I got to Villiers-street—I did not know it till my friend took me there—we went into a house, which I believe was a brothel—I did not stop there—when I came out I saw some girls—I believe Page was one, and there was one smaller than the prisoner—I should know her again. Q. Is this the girl that was with the prisoner?—(pointing out Louisa Gibson to the witness) A. No—I will swear that was not her—I swear positively that Gibson was not with me and my friend at the Cock-and-Bottle public-house—we went to a public-house on the left-hand side, opposite Villiers-street, with in two or three doors of the Adelphi theatre—we there gave the girls two or three quarterns of gin, and we took a glass of brandy—that was all I had till I went home with Page—I was not sober—after we left that public-house we went to an oyster-shop—my friend's name is Golding—I gave his direction to the attorney—I do not know whether he has brought him—he left London the next morning by the Bristol train—we had something to eat at the oyster-shop—we had nothing to drink at first—after we bad had something to eat I believe we bad some ale—we had no gin at the oyster-shop, that I recollect—I will swear I drank no gin—I will not swear there was not any—I believe we had a mutton-chop there—I cannot say whether it was a chop or a steak—I know it was meat—it was either a mutton-chop or a beef-steak—I am almost sure it was a mutton-chop—there was nothing passed about paying for it—Golding did not say any thing to me about paying for it. Q. Will you undertake to swear that Golding did not say to you, "Now you blackguard, pay for the chops you have ordered," and did you no say, "You know I have no money?" A. No, sir, there was nothing of the kind—I believe I paid 1s. for three quarterns of gin—the other man paid 1s., and took 6d. back, and left the remainder for one quartern—I paid 2s. at the oyster-shop, I know—I am almost certain I paid 2s. 8d., but I am satisfied I paid 2s.—we had nothing to drink after the chops—we might have had it at the time we were eating—there was a glass on the table—I might have taken part of it—I believe Mr. Golding took a glass of brandy—I swear there was no other liquor on the table but a glass of ale a-piece. Q. When you went home with Page, do you recollect producing any money? A. No—only at the door, I separated my purse from my coppers, while she was rapping, in order to button my pocket—I had my purse in my hand when I went into the house. Q. Have you never said you had not seen your purse and money from the time you left the public-house? A. I might have said I did not see them, but I felt them—I mentioned about separating my purse from my coppers, and feeling the purse—I had seen my watch in going over Waterloo-bridge—I took it out, and looked what o'clock it was—I mentioned that, and I think it was taken down—I am positive I said it. Q. After you say you had lost all this, you saw an old woman a servant? A. Yes—I did not charge her with being in the room while I was with Page—that I swear—I charged no one with coming into the room, but Seymour—I did not say that that woman assisted Amelia in getting the money out of my pocket—nor that the money had been put on a trunk, or in a trunk under the bed—I said there was a trunk in the room—after the prisoners were taken to the station-house we went back to the house, and the old woman struck at me right and left—the officer had not time to make a search—he had to take her with him—there was no other policeman brought to search the house. Q. How came you to leave the Bolton police? A. I resigned under Sir Charles Shaw—I heard that this case was kept back till the solicitor had an answer from Sir Charles Shaw—I receive 30l. a year from a tan-yard of my brother's—the rent is paid half-yearly—I received these fifteen sovereigns for the half-year due at Christmas, on the 3rd of February—I received it in Bolton—I received the letter on the Sunday, and got the money on the Thursday following—mine was a double-cased watch, which I have had ever since 1833—the dress I had on that night was the same as I have on now, with the exception of a scarf—I have always been quite certain as to the dress I had on—I have been asked about it, and always gave a clear account of my dress. DANIEL CONNELL (police-constable L 142.) I was called to the house about one o'clock on the Monday morning, the 24th of February—the prosecutor made a complaint about losing his fifteen sovereigns, and his watch—he pointed out the prisoner Page as the person—she denied it, and said it was false, that he had no money when he came in—he insisted on my taking her to the station-house, and the prisoner Seymour also for assaulting him, hitting him in the face with the candlestick, and turning him down stairs—I took the prisoners to the station-house—I went back, and made a search in the room, and found nothing but this cane, which the prosecutor identified—an old woman who had followed us to the station-house then came back, and the prosecutor said to her, "You assisted the female prisoner in taking the trunk from under the bed"—se directly flew at his face, and brought blood from him—she went to him a second time, and did it again, and he insisted on my taking her to the station-house—I did so, and then went on my beat—I did not go back to the house again till the next day, when we came back from Union-hall. Cross-examined. Q. How was the prosecutor? A. He was the worse for liquor—I heard him charge the old woman with assisting in taking the trunk from under the bed—he said in presence of me and another officer that his purse was a blue purse. JOHN MORRISON re-examined. My purse was a brown one—I have always said it was brown—I never said it was blue. Cross-examined. Q. Have you ever been a witness before? A. Never at the Sessions—I was before the Magistrate in Bolton—I never was a witness here, nor in any Court in London nor Surrey. MR. ESPINASSE called LOUISA GIBSON . I am a girl of the town. I was in company with Page and another girl on Sunday night, the 23rd of February—I saw the prosecutor first about half-past seven o'clock—he then had two gentlemen with him—I afterwards saw him in Villiers-street—he turned into an open house in Villiers-street—I did not see him come out, but I saw him and his two friends after they came out—they had not reached as far as the Cock-and-Bottle public-house when I met them—I went into the Cock-and-Bottle public-house with them—I did not notice whether the prosecutor was drunk before he went in, or not—I called for some wine—the prosecutor said gin was good enough for wh—s, and he called for gin, and several quarterns were given, I do not know how many—we were there nearly half-an-hour—we then left them, and in about two hours Page and I were coming down the Strand, and we met the prosecutor and one other gentleman—we asked the other gentleman to treat us—he said he would—they took us to an oyster-shop close against the Adelphi—we had half a pint or more of gin, and the Irish gentleman who was with the prosecutor paid for it—we had three mutton chops and some bread and butter, but we had no beer or ale, I am quite certain, nothing but gin—I asked the prosecutor to give us some ale, which he refused to do—the other gentleman paid for the gin that we had at the Cock-and-Bottle public-house—the prosecutor called for the chops at the oyster-shop, and when they came up the other gentleman said, "Now, you blackguard, pay for the chops," the prosecutor said, "I have no money, and that you know"—the gentleman paid for them—I did not see the prosecutor pay any thing that night, not a halfpenny—he did not produce any money—I did not see that he had a watch. JOHN MORRISON . This witness was never there—why did not she state what she has now stated before the Magistrate? Witness. I was not before the Magistrate. COURT. Q. Where do you live? A. In Holborn-buildings—I have known Seymour's wife only since this occurred, on account of Page living with her—I heard of this on Saturday or Sunday last—I cannot say on which day it was, but it was not longer than that—I think it was on Sunday I heard of it, when I met Mrs. Seymour in the Strand, and she told me of it—she was with a young man named Thomas Phillips, who is a friend of Page—Seymour's wife then told me that Page had been taken up on this charge—I cannot say whether this was on Sunday or Monday—it was about half-past eight o'clock in the evening—I think it was on Monday night, as I believe the theatres were open—Seymour's wife told me that Page was taken up on a charge about the supper that night—they asked me about the supper, and whether I had not taken supper on that night-nothing more passed than that—I was not before the Magistrate. JOHN MORRISON . She was there all the whole time of the trial, and the police-constable (L 107) was there—(this policeman was not in attendance.) DANIEL CONNELL re-examined. I will not say that I saw her there, Page. You and another officer were talking to Seymour's wife and another woman. Witness. I cannot say that. RICHARD HALL . I am waiter at Mr. Price's oyster-rooms, in the Strand. I recollect seeing the prosecutor there on Sunday week last with a man, the prisoner Page, and the witness Gibson—they came about half-past ten, or eleven o'clock at night—when they came in first they had half a pint of gin—I fetched it myself—the prosecutor's friend paid for it—I did not see them drink it, I left the room—our cook had gone to bed, and the prosecutor ordered some chops, which I cooked myself—they had three chops, which came to 2s. 8d.—the prosecutor's friend paid for them—he paid 3s., and gave me the 4d.—I learned that the prosecutor's friend's name was Captain Golding—he then lived in a court in the Strand—I know the court, but I forget the name of it—he is now gone to Ireland—I recollect, before the prosecutor's friend gave me any money, that he said to the prosecutor, "Now, you villain, you have ordered the chop, pay for them"—the prosecutor said, "You know I have no money"—the prosecutor's friend pulled the bell-rope down in ringing for me, and he paid me—I saw him take the money out of his pocket. COURT. Q. How do you know all about Captain Golding? A. We went on Tuesday night to his lodgings—he had come a night or two before to my master's house, and got drinking—my master learned his name, and he left word where he lived—my master sent me there with two or three more—with Gibson, and a young man named Phillips, and they said he went to Ireland—I do not know what day my master sent me—I think it was Tuesday or Wednesday—it was in March—MRS. Seymour was with me and Gibson and Mr. Phillips—the first time I saw Gibson after that Sunday night was the night that they came to me—it was on Tuesday or Wednesday—I knew Gibson again directly, that I swear—I have no doubt about her whatever—I had seen her before that Sunday—I had seen her Walk up and down the Strand—our shop is next door to the theatre in the Strand. JOHN MORRISON re-examined. Q. You state that Gibson is not the woman who was with you? A. No—she was a shorter woman than the prisoner Page is, and Gibson is nearly a head taller—she had not got a shawl on as Gibson has, she was quite a young girl, and Gibson is nearly an old woman—I cannot recollect what name she went by. LOUISA GIBSON re-examined. I have on the same clothes that I had on that night—I am twenty-two years of age—I generally go by the name of "the widow." COURT to JOHN MORRISON. Q. It is sworn you did not pay this 2s. 8d., but Captain Golding did? A. If he did it was with my money—the last silver he had he paid in the house where we were, down by Hunger ford-market—I swear that Gibson was before the Magistrate—my wife had never seen Gibson before that day—I sent her to listen to what Gibson and Seymour's wife were saying before the trial came on, and she remained nearly an hour hearing what they said—my wife it in a house just by, and if you send for her, and put Gibson in any corner of the Court, the will pick her out. THOMAS JOBSON (police-constable L 128.) I was on duty at Tower-street station-house on the morning of the 24th of February—I had this charge to take to the Hall myself—the prosecutor met me at the station-house, and had an inclination to speak to me—I would listen to nothing he had to say—I heard him in conversation with his friend at Union Hall, and his friend was interrogating him very closely as to his being capable of swearing to the person who hid robbed him—I heard him tell his friend more than once that he was so drunk he could not tell, but he firmly believed that these were the persons who had his money—Gibton is not the girl who was with Seymour's wife at the office—it was a girl younger in appearance, and half a head shorter. ANN MORRISON . I am the wife of the prosecutor. I recollect on Monday rooming, the 2nd of March, there was a charge against Page and Seymour for robbing him—it was at the Police-office—recollect Seymour's wife being present—there was a roan and a woman with her—I think I should know the woman again—I do not tee her here—I cannot point her out, as I did not look in her face—the was about the same size as Gibson—my husband has always had a watch since I have been married to him. JURY. Q. Did you know of his receiving a letter from Ireland, and receiving money from there? A. Yes—he had 30l. a year—he received 15l. last month in Birmingham two days before we came from there. MR. ESPINASSE. Q. Did you come with him? A. Yes—he had more money than the 15s.—he had not been in London many days when this happened—it was in Birmingham my husband got this money, to the best of my belief—I think it was in Birmingham. JOHN MORRISON re-examined. Q. You have said over and over again that Gibson was present at the elimination? A. Yes, the and Seymeur's wife were outside the first day, but on the last day Gibson got to early in the morning—she and Seymour's wife, and I sent my wife to the back of them; and more than that, the policeman had been talking to them and my wife complained very hard to me about them—I received the 15l. in Bolton—my wife knew that I got a letter and received some money. (William Cox, a grocer, in Cornwall-road, gave Seymour a good character.) PAGE- GUILTY Aged 20. SEYMOUR- GUILTY Aged 23. Transported for Ten Years.

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Tony Beale on 12th September 2021

New South Wales, Australia, Convict Indents, 1788-1842Single protestant who could read and write. From Kingston, Surry England. Tried 2/3/1840 4' 11 1/2" ruddy and freckled complexion light brown hair chesnut eyes, described as full featured. Written as Elizabeth page on the indent.

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Tony Beale on 12th September 2021

New South Wales, Australia, Gaol Description and Entrance Books, 1818-1930 for Amelia Page Newcastle 1840-1852 28/7/1840 Assigned to Mr Boyce 10/11/1840 14 days cells for absconding then reassigned J H Crummer J.P. New South Wales, Australia, Registers of Convicts' Applications to Marry, 1826-1851 Refused 16/12/1840 Amelia Page 21 Bond (10yrs) per ship Surry (9) to marry William Kirk 23 Bong (14yrs) per ship Mary Ann Rev L Walton Newcastle