Charles Stafford

218

Dianne Jones on 4th December 2021

NOTE: His co-accused and brother, William Stafford, was also sent to WA. He went on the Clara, arriving on 3 July 1857. See his bio at https://convictrecords.com.au/convicts/stafford/william/14076.

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Dianne Jones on 4th December 2021

From his Fremantle jail record: STAFFORD, Charles; #4685, arrived 1 Jan 1858 per Nile Date of Birth: 1834 Marital Status: Unmarried Occupation: Cab proprietor Literacy: Semiliterate Sentence Place: London, London, England Crime: Receiving stolen goods Sentence Period: 14 years Ticket of Leave Date: 31 Mar 1859 Conditional Pardon Date: 12 Aug 1861 (https://fremantleprison.com.au/). --00--

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Dianne Jones on 4th December 2021

OCCUPATION - He is listed on court and other documents as a cab proprietor but on his WA Convict Record he is a dairyman (Western Australia, Australia, Convict Records, 1846-1930; Convict Department Registers (128/38 - 39).

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Dianne Jones on 4th December 2021

TRIAL contd: EDWARD SMITH . In April last I lived in Morgan's-yard, Islington. I know the prisoner, Charles Stafford—he is a cab proprietor—I was working for him occasionally as horse keeper—his stable was in Black Horse-yard, City-road, about fifty yards from the Blue Coat Boy—the Blue Coat is at the corner, at the top of the City-road, where it is joined by the Islington-road and the New-road—I know William Stafford; he is a cow keeper, and lives with his father and mother, in Hermes-street, Pentonville—he is the brother of Charles Stafford—Charles has only one cab—I was acting as his horse keeper on 26th and 27th April last, and on the evening of the 26th I was in Charles's stable, in Black Horse-yard, about half past 10 o'clock, or from that up to 11—I saw him leave, with a cab and horse, about half past 10 o'clock—before he went out I received directions from him about the keys of the stable—he told me to leave the keys at Mr. Tarling's coffee shop, that is opposite the Peacock, and to get a penny candle, and leave it at the stable, as his brother Bill wanted to come in there that night—I did so; I left the keys at Tarling's, and the candle at the stable—he said he should be there about 9 o'clock the next morning—I went the next morning to Tarling's coffee shop for the keys—I did not get them—I went to No. 8, 'Chapel-place, where Charles Stafford lodged—I saw him, and he told me that his horse had been in several hours, and he did not want me that day; he wanted the horse to rest that day—he told me to come up there between 5 and 6 o'clock that night—I went down to the stable on that Friday night—I got the keys at his lodging, and when I opened the stable door, I same a strong smell—I never smelt any smell like that before—George Rand went in with me, and asked me what it was—I went into the loft, and I found twenty pockets of hops, but I did not know that they were hops—I had never seen hope before—I called Rand up, and he came up—the twenty bags of hops were all in bags at that time—I am not able to write or read—Charles Stafford came there, I should say, in half an hour afterwards; that was after Rand went away—I said to Charles Stafford, "When I opened the stable door there was a strong smell; it almost made me boozey"—he told me it was his property, and he did not want that any one should know it was there—he went and put his corn up, ready for the night—(he only works his cab at night)—he told me to put his cab on the rank about half past 9 o'clock—he then left me, and went away—I was at work for him again on the following Monday, between 8 and 9 o'clock in the morning; and I was at work in the afternoon, about half past 4 o'clock William Stafford came about half past 4 o'clock, and three more persons with him—I saw two of those other persons before the Magistrate—William Stafford met me as I was coming up the yard from the stable—he asked me for the keys of the stable, and he told me I was to go down the yard, and take his brother's horse to the farrier's that night, to have two fore shoes put on, because his brother wanted to get out early that night—as soon as I unlocked the stable door, William Stafford went into the stable, and he and two of the strangers walked up into the loft—the third was not with them at that time—he came afterwards—he also went into the loft—I cannot say whether be had been there before—William Stafford and the three strangers were then in the loft—Charles Stafford came down about ten minutes afterwards; he asked me what was the reason I did not bring the keys up to his house after I had done his work—I told him I had another job to do, I had not time to get up to his house with the keys—he told me to bring his horse, and take it to the farrier, and wait until such time as it was done—he said, "My brother is up in the loft, is not he?"—I said, Yes"—he then went of into the loft, he was up there two or three minutes—he came down afterwards, and told me he did not want me to come up into the loft at all, for he did not want these parties to know that I should know that the things were there—he went up in the loft, and I brought the horse outside the stable to go to the farrier's, and William Stafford came out of the gate, and gave me a leg up—I was about a quarter of an hour gone—I returned to the stable, and proceeded to wash the cab; Charles Stafford was there, standing against the loft door, sweeping the loose hops out of the loft—the cab was right under the loft door at the time I was washing it—I suppose they were sweeping the hops together, the loose ones were flying about, and they came on the cab—I got on the roof of the cab, and that brought me level with the loft door—I could see right into the loft—I saw two persons there; they were two of the strangers that I saw; come—one of them was straddling on one of the bags; be had a palm on his hand and a needle—they were shifting the hops about—in the course of the time that I was there, haying returned with the horse, Charles Stafford threw me a shilling out of the loft door into the yard, and asked me to go and fetch a pot of beer—I heard the other men talking to him, jabbering with him, and saying, "Don't send for a pot, send for half a gallon"—I fetched it, and came back with it to the stable, and as soon as I opened the stable door, Charles Stafford ran down the ladder out of the loft into the stable, and took the beer himself—that was about 5 o'clock, or later than that—I saw the strangers go away about 7 o'clock; Charles Stafford did not go with them, he stopped behind—these men were in the yard, and I heard them appoint with Charles Stafford to be there between 4 and 5 o'clock the next afternoon—after they were gene, I was cleaning the harness, and Charles Stafford told me he had a little job for me to do—he went up into the loft, and chucked down five bags out of the loft—they were just such bags as these (looking at them)—he told me he wanted me to take them bags to Holywell-lane, Old-street, and sell them at any rag shop I could, and he told me to shake them before I took them—I told him, "Very well," and he went home to his tea, and left me there to take the bags—George Rand was in the yard, and he helped me to shake them, and we doubled them up, and went away to sell them—I went down Goswell-road, and there was a young man, Charles Fox, standing at his father's door, who is a corn chandler—he stopped me, and talked to me, and in consequence of that I did not offer the bags for sale—I went back to the stable, and put the bags under the manger, where I took them from—I put the keys of the stable in my pocket, and went up to police station, where I saw Sergeant Sainsbury; I went in, and told him something—I then went back to the stable; I saw Charles Stafford in an hour, or an hour an a half afterwards—he asked me whether I had sold the sacks—I told him, "No"—he asked me what was the reason that I did not sell them—I told him being marked bags no one would buy them—he did not say anything after that—J saw him on the following morning, about half past 8 o'clock; he asked me where the sacks were—I told him that they laid under the manger—he asked me for a knife, and I told him I had not got one—he asked me where the knife was that was lying on the cupboard—I told him that I had lost it—he told me to go down Lansdown-place, and borrow one—I told him that I had borrowed one the day before, and broke it, and they would not lend me another—he then said, "I tell you what I will do with you; I will give you them bags; you can have them yourself only on one condition, that you take and cut the names out"—he told me to be sure to do it, and burn them, or bury them, or do anything with them so long as I made away with them, and the rest part of the property I was to have for myself, and what I got I was to keep, and when I had sold them I was to come to his lodgings and bring the keys, and tell him whether I I had made away with the sacks—it was on Monday I saw the sergeant, and on Tuesday I was on the rank with Charles Stafford's cab—I saw sergeant Goodwin, he spoke to me, and I went down with him and unlocked the door of the stable—he went up in the loft and saw those bags of hops, and likewise the things that they had to work, and those five sacks that I had; they were in the stable; I showed them to him—he saw the twenty bags, fifteen of one sort, and five of another. Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. How long did you work for Charles Stafford? A. About six weeks—I had been before that at a farrier's, in Islington; I had been with him twelve months—I left him for being late one morning; that was the only reason—before I went to the farrier's, I was at Mr. Wood's, a pie shop, at Islington; I was there when very young, on and off—I have never been in trouble myself—it was on the evening of the 26th, that Charles Stafford left the yard with the cab about 9 o'clock; it was a four-wheeled cab—he was in the habit of driving his cab—he had only one cab—I do not know that Charles Stafford had let that loft—hay and straw were usually kept in it—there was no hay and straw at that time—it was empty, all but some harness—I should not think it had been empty so long as a week—Tarling's was the place where I usually left the keys of the stable—he could get in the stable when he liked—when I went in I smelt something—I am quite sure he did not say, "Mind, they are not mine"—he said they were his after he came down—I have never said that he said they were not his property; I am quite sure of that—when I saw these hops, I mentioned it to George Rand; he was the only person—there was no other person there after that night—Tuesday was the first time the policeman mentioned it to me—I went with the sacks down Goswell-street—I was going to sell them—the marks on them were very plain for anybody to see—Charles Stafford must have seen them when he Passed them to me. Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. It was on Tuesday morning your master told you to cut away the marks? A. Yes—that was the day after I gave information at the police station—it was about 8 o'clock when he told me to take them—he did not give me directions how I should take them, or put them in anything—they are old sacks—on the first occasion, I Went in the stable, and saw several bags in the loft—the next day the loft door was open, and I Haw into the loft—I could see the bags when I was on the cab. GEORGE RAND . I live at No. 2, Lansdown-place, Black Horse-yard—in April, I was out of work—on the evening of Friday, 27th April, I was down Black Horse-yard, between 5 and 6 o'clock; the last witness was there—we went up to Chapel-place for the keys—we came back, and opened the stable door—I said, "What a smell there is!"—we began to look about in the stable to see if there was anything that did smell—we went up in the loft, and saw a lot of bags; pockets of hops—they were like these—they were marked, "C. & F. Leny, Wateringbury, Kent"—we came down—Smith began to clean the harness—I was standing in the yard—Charles Stafford came down the yard, and Smith said to him, "Charles, there was such a smell when I opened the door; it almost made me boozey"—Charles Stafford said, "What was it?" he said, "A lot of bags," and Charles called Mm into the stable; I do not know what he said to him; he whispered something—Smith then finished cleaning the cab, and took it away—on the next day, Saturday, I was in the stable, and saw the hope in the loft—on the Monday, I was in the yard about 4 o'clock, and William Stafford came down the yard with a rough cap and a hairy dog—he said to me, "Do you know where young Shakespeare is; the chap that does Charles Stafford off'?"—I said, "I think he is gone to get his tea"—I came into the yard again between 7 and 6 o'clock—I heard a noise in the loft; a shifting about—I saw Charles Stafford again—Smith was then cleaning the harness—I went into the yard, and I heard Charles Stafford tell Smith to sell some bags—I did not hear him say where he was to sell them—I was going that evening with Smith down Goswell-road with the bags—we met Charles Fox—we brought the bags back to the stable, and pat them under the manger—I went with Smith to the police station, and told them something. Cross-examined by MR. COOPER Q. Yow saw in the loft? A. Yes—on Monday the door was on the jar—the other time the door was close bolted inside—when the door was ajar, a person could not see in from the ground. Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. How many feet was the door from the ground? A. About the height of an ordinary first floor—you cannot see in from the ground—the yard is small, a stable is on each side—it was nearly 8 o'clock when I heard Charles Stafford give directions to sell, the bags—I could not see what was in the loft, when I was on the ground. WILLIAM SAINSBURY (police-sergeant, N 52). On the Monday after this robbery, Smith and Rand came to the station—I went to Charles Stafford's stable, I saw the pockets of hops in the loft—we took away one of the empty pockets, and took it to the prosecutors, Messrs. Randalls, who identified it—I went afterwards to the stable with Goodwin and Smith, and brought away the hops—I did not know there was a reward of 50l. offered. BENJAMIN GOODWIN (police-sergeant, N 8). I went with the last witness to the place—what he says is true—I found this palm and this hook, which is usual for persons to have in examining pockets of hops, also this packing needle and knife—on Tuesday, 1st May, I took Charles Stafford at No. 8, Chapel-place, Pentonville—he appeared to be just washing himself and coming out—I knocked at the door, and he was denied—I said, "No nonsense; I am sure he is in"—I got in the door, and called a brother officer—I felt about the passage—it was dark—I found Charles Stafford standing in a recess at the foot of the stairs—I secured him, and said to him, "What made you deny yourself, Charles, when you heard me call for you?"—he said, "Because I did not want to be taken to-night"—I said, "Then you know what I want you for, about the hops that are in your loft"—he said, "I know nothing about that, I let my loft to a man living near London Bridge for a shilling a week"—I asked him who the man was, and where he lived—he said he did not know his name nor his address—I took him to the station—I was then in search of William Stafford—I was not able to find him for a fortnight or three weeks—I found him at last in the road on Pentonville-hill—I told him I wanted him—he was charged with being concerned with his brother Charles and two others, who were then in custody, for stealing twenty pockets of hops—he said, "I know nothing about them." Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. How far is it from where you found William Stafford to where you took Charles? A. About a quarter of a mile—I believe Charles Stafford was there, but the address on his ticket is in Hermes-street. CHARLES VINCENT . I am a brewer, and live at No. 25, John-street I know the prisoner, William Stafford; he came to me either the latter end of April, or the beginning of May, he brought a sample of hops with him in his hat, he offered them for sale, I declined to purchase them—I asked him what hops they were—he said they came from Farnham in Kent—I told him I thought he made a mistake, as Farnham happened to be in Surrey—he then said it might be Farningham—they were hops of English growth—the grower's name is generally on the sample of hops, and I observed the words, "Bees wax" there—I declined to buy—he put the sample where he took it from, in his hat, and went away. Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. Where was this? A. In the brewery yard—I think he asked 17s. for them—I inferred that that was per cwt—that was a fair price for them. MR. CLARKSON to JOHN GAY. Q. Do you remember when the hops were brought to your warehouse from the police station that there was the mark of a sample having been drawn? A. Yes; two samples had been taken from one bag—they had not been taken from the usual place, where we generally draw them. COURT. Q. If they were shifting the hops from one bag to another, would there be any difficulty in taking a sample then? A. No; they could take that at the same time—these samples ware taken from one of the old bags. Witnesses to character. JOHN HATWELL . I have known Charles Stafford all his life—he has always been a very hard working and industrious young man, and borne a good character for honesty—I have known William Stafford ever since he was born—he has always borne a good character—he lives with his father, who is a cow keeper—he does not carry on business for himself. Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. Do you mean to say that you do not know that William Stafford has been in custody before? A. Yes, I know he has, but then he was innocent—I know he was taken before a Magistrate, charged with stealing a watch—I do not know that he has been in custody for other charges. MR. SALTER. Q. Do you know that he was acquitted? A. Yes. ROBERT HATWELL . I am a cow keeper. I have known both the prisoners ever since they were born—Charles has always borne a good character for honesty—I was in the Court at the time William was tried—I heard the charge, for buying the ticket of a watch—the case never went to the Jury—it was opened by one of the learned gentlemen—Justice Maule was presiding—the witnesses against him were never called—I gave him a character. (John Charles Thompson, a veterinary sturgeon; John Andrews, 'a cow keeper; and John Thomas Barnes, a burner, gave each of the prisoners a good character; and George Thompson, a tailor, gave Charles Stafford a good character.) Charles Stafford. I told the constable the name of the person I let the loft to. BENJAMIN GOODWIN re-examined. You did not say so; you said you did not know the man's name, nor where he lived—I asked you twice in the presence of my brother sergeant. WILLIAM STAFFORD— GUILTY of Stealing. Aged 27. CHARLES STAFFORD— GUILTY of Receiving. Aged 21. Transported for Fourteen Years (https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/). --00--

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Dianne Jones on 4th December 2021

TRIAL -- 2 July 1855: Old Bailey #728. WILLIAM STAFFORD and CHARLES STAFFORD were indicted (with Benjamin Bennett and William McLaren, not in custody), for burglariously breaking and entering the warehouse of Charles Randall and another, and stealing 20 pockets of hops, value 400l., their property. 2nd COUNT, feloniously receiving the same. MESSRS. CLARKSON and WORSLEY conducted the Prosecution. TIPTON DITCHETT . I am warehouseman in the employ of Charles Randall and Co., hop merchants—they carry on business at No. 9, Duke-street, Tooley-street, Southwark, under the style of Lockwood, Randall, and Co.—they have a warehouse in Snow's-fields, which is enclosed by a pair of gates—within those gates is a yard, leading down to the front of the ware-house—the gates open into Weston-street—from the gates to Weston-street is a distance of about thirty yards—it was my duty to go to the warehouse on Friday morning, 27th April, but not the first thing in the morning—I went there from 9 to half past 9 o'clock; the gates were then open—I went in at the back entrance in Sparrick's-row, and on going into the warehouse 1 missed twenty pockets of hops; I had seen them at half past 5 o'clock the night before, safe in the warehouse—the pockets were marked, "C. & F. Leny, Wateringbury, Kent, 1854," and besides that, the number and weight—I next saw the pockets at the police station, at Islington, about a week or ten days after they were lost—fifteen of them were in their original state, and five were in new cloth—there were no marks on the new pockets—I examined the hops—I examined the externals of the fifteen pockets, and drew samples from the new pockets, and found them to correspond with the hops we had in our warehouse—I have the samples here—the value of the hops was about 400l. Cross-examined by MR. COOPKR. Q. What was there peculiar in these hops of yours; you say you examined fifteen externally, and some were new covered? A. Yes; five were in new cloth—we have our hops from a factor in the Borough—the person who supplied them to us had a large quantity—he is a wholesale factor; he receives them from the planter who grows them—these were Kent hops, and the name of the planter was printed oh the cloth—all the hops from him would have that mark, but not the number—when we draw hops, we place a number on the corner of the pocket; numbers 1 to 20, as it may be, and the same number on the paper which contains the sample—in this case they were numbered from 19 to 38. MR. CLARKSON. Q. These hops are sold? A. Yes, some of them; but I have some here, and the cloth or pocket, and there are five of them in cloth which do not belong to us; this is one "C. & F. Leny, Wateringbury, Kent," and at the corner is the sample number, "No. 35"—this is one of the pockets that I marked on the afternoon or evening on which we lost twenty—I examined the hops before they were sold—they were Kent hope—I know them to be the property of my masters—this is one of the new pockets. JOHN GAY . I am a hop porter in the service of the prosecutors. On the evening of 26th April, I locked up my master's warehouse about half past 5 o'clock; sometimes we lock up at 6 o'clock—I closed the front entrance leading into the yard before you go out of the gates—the gates are fastened with a bar across the inside—I did not fasten the gates through which persons go into the yard, as there were other persons in the yard—I closed the warehouse door, and made it fast within with a bar inside, which goes over a staple, and shoots into the sill of the door, so from without, the warehouse cannot be got into without its being broken—this front door was locked as well as barred—I went out at the back door—the twenty pockets that were missed the following morning, were then safe in the warehouse—I locked the door of the back entrance, and put a bar across, god a padlock on each side—I came on the following morning at 5, or ten minutes past 7 o'clock—I entered by the way of Sparrick s-row at the back—there is a landing stone at that back entrance—when I got to that back door in Sparrick's-row, I found all right—I got in by a key, and walked up to the front door; I found the front door open—1 did not miss anything then—1 went down to the gates, and found the padlock was off the gates—I came back again to the warehouse, and found twenty pockets of hop were gone; I missed twenty pockets—I found the bar which goes over the staple and shoots in the sill, was thrown on one side—there were marks outside the door of some iron bar which had been put in to prise the door open—I missed the hops, and went to the police station. GEORGE SMITH (policeman, M 165). I went to the warehouse on Friday, 27th April—I examined the front door, and found it had been broken open—the door had been prised open with an iron bar in several places—I did not examine the gates. CATHERINE SARAH BOLAN . I live with my father, in Weston-street, Bermondsey. I know the hop warehouse of the prosecutors—you turn out of Weston-street to go to the warehouse, and on the left hand side as you go down, are the premises of my father—he does not follow any business—there are no windows in that part of our house which is in a line with the gates of the warehouse—on the night of 26th April, I was at the gates of my father's premises at a little after 10 o'clock—I was returning home—I saw a van turn the corner, going towards the gates of the hep warehouse—the van was empty—the gates were not open when I first saw the van—when I got a little way up the turning, the gates opened—the van went up the yard, and the gates closed directly—I was not able to distinguish the driver of the van, or the person by whom the gates were opened—I did not perceive any one—I went in directly, and saw no more—in about a quarter of an hour I heard something come out—to the best of my belief they were not there above a quarter of an hour—what came out appeared to me to be a van loaded—it was about 25 minutes to 11 o'clock when it came down—I did not see the van after it left the yard, nor which way it went. JOHN RYAN . I am a hatter. I sleep at Mr. Hodson's, in George-street West, Blackfriars-road. On 26th April, I was passing through Suow's-fields, about a quarter past 10 o'clock at night, I saw a van laden with hops going towards Ring-street—there were two horses in it, they were trotting—I held on behind, and followed the van to Blackfrars-road—I saw the person who was driving the van, when he was turning round Weston-street, Snow's-fields—there was a light at the corner of Weston-street—William Stafford was driving—the van went up King-street, towards Blackfriars-road—it then went towards the bridge—I let go the van then. Cross-examined by MR. TALFORD SALTER. Q. You were hanging on behind, and I suppose the driver had no knowledge that you were there? A. No; I placed myself in such a position that he should not see me—he could not see me; he was in front—he was not dressed as he is now—he had a brown coat and a hat. Q. Had you any opportunity of judging of his height? A. I saw him just as he was coming out of Weston-street; he was sitting in what they call a dickey, in front of the van—he was driving with reins—his back was towards me all the time till I got to Blackfriars. COURT. Q. Where were you when he turned out of Weston-street? A. At the corner of New Weston-street—lie came past me—I met him and then got behind the van—I had never seen William Stafford before. EDWIN COLEMAN (policeman, M 53). On Thursday night, 26th April, I was on duty between 10 and 11 o'clock, in Union-street, in the Borough—I saw a van with two horses coming down Union-street, loaded with pockets of hops—it was going towards Blackfrars-road—I was standing still—I observed the driver—I believe William Stafford is the person. Cross-examined by MR. T. SALTER. Q. How was he dressed? A. With a dark coat, or a jacket it might hare been, and a cap—I was on the other side of the road—T did not observe anybody hanging behind the van. COURT. Q. Where is King-street f A. About 200 yards from where I was—I saw him cross the Borough from King-street—that took my attention first—he was driving a good smart trot—I saw him come out of King-street, cross the Borough, and go into Union-street.